OK, I know the last factory equipped PRR trainphone equipped locomotives were the GP30's and U25B's and that trainphone was discontinued in 1967. (Which means all First Generation road power had them) And I understand that PRR went with Motorola VHF voice sets as the replacement. My question is what was the antenna? I have heard the Sinclair "Ice Skate" type was adopted. Is this correct? Were any "firecracker" types installed? I presume they were on the centerline of the cab roof, correct?
What was the policy regarding stripping trainphone equipment? Was it removed (to include antennae) when the radios were installed?
Not all first generation engines or cabooses had the system installed. One needs to research specific loco numbers to be accurate. The PRR system and number of locomotives was just to large to achieve 100% coverage.
I can’t speak about the PRR but I worked in the El Paso TX Motorola Service Shop in the late 1950s and most of the Southern Pacific locomotives had the Sinclair Excalibur (Ice Skate) antennas.I installed many Sinclair protective domes on them.The cabooses had Southern Pacific Shops fabricated VHF antennas, regular 18” VHF mobile antennas mounted on a 36” round metal plate.
I replaced dozens of 18” rods.Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Aging is not for wimps.
Of all the picures I have looked at was that the PRR and NYC used the Sinclair Ice Skate antenna. Since this are hard to see from the normal views that are taken one sometimes has to guess the proper position on the cab roof. (not many roof view picures are taken which is a real PITA for placing lift rings and antennas on our models.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
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To add a bit to the PRR antenna thread.
Here are a couple of cropped photos as reference:
PRR_Radio_2257_crop-1 by Edmund, on Flickr
PRR_Radio_2630-GE_crop by Edmund, on Flickr
From what I gather the model was a Sinclair Excalibur 150. I remember seeing them on the Metroliners, too and the Metroliner Club cars had an additional antenna for mobile telephone.
PRR never owned the radios, they were all leased from Motorola through a company called Radiation Service Co. PRR paid $205 installation cost and got a $100 credit for the old Train Phone equipment trade-in.
GP7 and -9 engines had the antenna toward the forward-center of the cab roof.
F7s on the rear roof hatch (long way from the cab?) I don't know if any F3s ever got radios.
(*Note the new "High Adhesion" trucks!)
E units I can't say with the steam generator equipment back there.
Good Luck, Ed
Thank you, that's just what I was looking for! I would think, that in the absence of photo evidence (which I will look for) the SD7's and SD9's were like the GP's. Also,it would make sense that the F3's wouldn't have been converted to radios - they were 18 to 20 years old in 1967 when Trainphone was shut down and were prime trade in material to EMD. And speaking of trade ins, $100 (pre-inflation dollars backed by gold!) per locomotive for the trainphone equipment seems generous. We're talking 1940's technology in 1967 - I can't imagine it was worth much even as parts by then. We were well into the transistor age - and EMD would come out with the Dash 2 line employing circuit cards (still discrete components soldered to circuit boards) as FRU's (Field Replacable Units) only five years later.
"The guts of EMD's original Dash 2 improvements was that they modularized the electronics. They took the existing IDAC panel and repackaged it as a WS10 module, for example. No real improvment in wheelslip performance, but much easier to test and replace. The same went for the other modules, the sensor, sensor bypass, rate control, etc. The other big chunk was the HTC truck, which did improve overall adhesion. The rest of the changes were small and related to easier servicing. The only other big change - on the 38 series only - was the use of a traction alternator and diodes replacing the DC main generator."
EMD Dash 2 - Wikipedia
What's ironic is that portable voice radios had come of age in WW2 with the FM "Walkie Talkie" (SCR-300) and AM "Handie Talkie"(SCR-536) sets. They were even made by PRR's radio supplier, Motorola SCR-3motoola_ad_top.jpg (337×291) (smecc.org)00 - Wikipedia SCR-536 - Wikipedia. Which remained proud of its accomplishments 37096405d3207bc445107fa43a41d9ae.jpg (512×677) (pinimg.com)So just at the time PRR made the decision to adopt Trainphone, it became obsolete.
The first Handi-Talkies I recall seeing on the railroad looked like this:
Motorola by Edmund, on Flickr
Radios mounted in cabs and cabooses were about 18 or 20 inches square, about five inches thick and weighed about fifty pounds.
BEAUSABREAnd speaking of trade ins, $100 (pre-inflation dollars backed by gold!) a locomotive for the trainphone equipment seems generous. We're talking 1940's technology in 1967 - I can't imagine it was worth much even as parts by then.
You know how those deals go. I'm sure Motorola had every angle figured out to recoup any "trade in". Just ask your friendly automobile salesperson.
Some of the written accounts I've read said that when there was any radio trouble on railroad equipment the Motorola service tech would drive to the trouble spot and simply swap out equipment.
Some companies, IBM being another, required used equipment to be destroyed and could not be sold on the secondary market.
Sometimes my duties at GE were to gather up outdated Selectric typewriters and big, old mainframe computers and smash them with a Payloader. Someone from management or a rep from the company had to be there to witness it and record the serial numbers.
These are the vagaries of some of the lease agreements big companies had.
There are many stories of the removal of Train Phone in the PRRT&HS Keystone magazines. I'll see if I can find more info on the removal process.
PRR_1953progress by Edmund, on Flickr
Regards, Ed
This is a mid to late 1950s Motorola Handi-Talki that was used by the railroads.A SP yard guy brought one like this in for repair in the late 50s that he had stuck under a wheel of a slow rolling freight wheel to stop the car, it was squished flat in the middle. The railroad employees were tough on radios back then.The radio in Ed’s post was new in about 1963, the first transistorized portable (had three tubes in the transmitter). The first solid state Motorola HT200 Handi-Talki came out in late 1964 (the Brick). The (rubber ducky) antenna on this one didn’t appear until 1966, in 64 they came with a collapsible antenna.
The railroad model had a metal rigid tubular loop antenna that made them more durable for railroad use.Good memories from my earlier days when life was much better.Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Aging is not for wimps.