There is a wye at the west end of the Two Medicine trestle that Empire Builder passes through. What is the purpose of this? Thanks.
The why is to the left of the red marker. This is near Glacier National Park, which has an old railroad hotel, built with huge logs, much like Yellowstone. It is also a stop on the Empire Builder route.
My wag is that Glacier was a destination from points west and engines were turned at the wye. Maybe in older days the wye was big enough to turn whole trains.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddyMy wag is that Glacier was a destination from points west and engines were turned at the wye.
The wye at Essex was also used to turn helpers for the Marias Pass grade and to turn snow plows. There was once a loop (baloon track) near there but I hear it has since been taken out of service.
Marias_Loop by Edmund, on Flickr
48.31406488489952, -113.36470238132274
There are some good ground views of the wye and small engine facility here (skip to 7:25)
Good Luck, Ed
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I don't know the local area, but it could be that a rail line used to cross there. In cass lake MN, there is a wye where the Northern Pacific crossed the Great Northern. Now the NP line is gone and the GN is operated by BNSF, but the wye track remains.
JJF
Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing.
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Not knowing the local area either, could it be a wye for turning helpers? Why is there Japanese kana on the Google image?
NHTXWhy is there Japanese kana on the Google image?
Maybe because the poster is from Japan.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
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Thanks for your comments. Certainly, it seems that there was an effective length of 17 passenger cars beyond the wye. I'm surprised that there are wyes and return loops in the mountains like these. Even so, "Two Medicine river" is a strange name.310
BN7150"Two Medicine river" is a strange name.
Not really. This was Indian Country. Probably one can't say this anymore and I have destroyed my chance to be elected to public office or have a job in higher education, Hollywood or journalism. There are a number of Indian Reservations in Montana.
According to the infallible Internet:
Two Medicine acquired its name from Blackfeet legends. According to one story, two Piegan tribes planned to meet for a medicine ceremony in the valley. Failing to find each other, they both celebrated independently. ... The 1896 land sale between the Blackfeet and the federal government included the Two Medicine area.
Nearby mountain peaks are Dancing Lady, Rising Wolf, Never Laughs, Painted Tepee
BigDaddy BN7150 "Two Medicine river" is a strange name. Not really. This was Indian Country. Probably one can't say this anymore and I have destroyed my chance to be elected to public office or have a job in higher education, Hollywood or journalism. There are a number of Indian Reservations in Montana. According to the infallible Internet: Two Medicine acquired its name from Blackfeet legends. According to one story, two Piegan tribes planned to meet for a medicine ceremony in the valley. Failing to find each other, they both celebrated independently. ... The 1896 land sale between the Blackfeet and the federal government included the Two Medicine area. Nearby mountain peaks are Dancing Lady, Rising Wolf, Never Laughs, Painted Tepee
BN7150 "Two Medicine river" is a strange name.
He's got a point. The GN used a lot of Native American Culture in their marketing. From calendars with photos of people in full Native regalia to the naming of their routes, and yes, even their railroad hotels and related pariphinalia was given names with Native American origins.
A slight correction--the SOO, not the NP, crossed the GN in Cass Lake, MN.
BN7150I'm surprised that there are wyes and return loops in the mountains like these.
Wye? err Why?
There is usually a wye at the top of a helper grade and helper grades are are in mountainous areas.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman BN7150 I'm surprised that there are wyes and return loops in the mountains like these. Wye? err Why? There is usually a wye at the top of a helper grade and helper grades are are in mountainous areas.
BN7150 I'm surprised that there are wyes and return loops in the mountains like these.
eh! Is the direction of travel of the helper engines fixed? Maybe they are steam locomotives? :P
NP Eddie A slight correction--the SOO, not the NP, crossed the GN in Cass Lake, MN.
Yup. You are right. Mixed up my lines there. Sorry! NP didn't cross until somewhere around Bemidji.
I am curious about this turning of helpers at summits. I can see that it might depend on the length of the grade. For a "short" grade, it would be a waste of time. Perhaps it would not be for a sufficiently long grade.
Perhaps some examples could be cited.
I had a quick look at Cajon Pass and Saluda Grade on Google maps and didn't see any turning tracks. Did I miss them?
Ed
The turning of helpers became less important with the advent of the diesel. Multi unit consists simply had a cab facing in each direction, negating the need to turn it around. The length of the helper district also played a role in whether or not the helper was turned at the end of it's "help". Cab units and steamers were for the most part considered single ended lococomotives and speed restricted when running in "reverse". These restrictions were in the 25 MPH range, and, slow moving, returning helpers created as much of an operational headache as crawling up the grade in the first place. On the longer helper districts such as Horseshoe Curve, Sand Patch, Cajon Pass, Rogers Pass, it made more sense to turn the units to run forward as light power, at speeds up to 50MPH instead of creeping backwards to their starting point, creating a rolling roadblock for other traffic. Not only was fluidity of movement maintained, the number of helper locomotives and crews could also be reduced in many cases.
The advent of the diesel brought two major changes to helper operations with the ability to have a cab facing in the proper direction and, dynamic braking. Eliminating the need to turn the helper to avoid running in reverse has already been illustrated. Dynamic braking is important if the helper district is up one side and down on the other. Prior to the diesel, trains that had just been assisted upgrade, had to stop at the summit and, turn up retainers, to keep the brakes applied for obvious reasons. Once at the bottom of the grade, another stop was necessary to reset the retainers and quite often to cool the wheels. In many cases the additional dynamic braking of the helpers made all of this unnecessary, and enhanced safety.
Many helper districts have been eliminated by today's high horsepower locomotives that assist trains both up and down these grades, with no need for being turned. Many of these turning points no longer exist and, those that do are often bad order or MofW setouts, instead of turn-back points for helpers.