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NYC Boxcar Help

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  • Member since
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NYC Boxcar Help
Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 9:16 PM

I'm in need of help from my Forum friends again. I purchased a Bowser DD boxcar this evening to add some more roadnames to my collection. (Not that I need more equipment. I have somewhere around 175 pieces already and eventually I will be getting another influx of equipment from my uncle.) Does anyone have good links for pictures of NYC 45000-46899 series cars? Specifically I'm looking for late 60s to late 70s photos. I am needing to get the reporting marks accurate for that era for use on my layout. It would be a pass-through car as I model Eastern Montana. (Part of the run-through from the old Q and NYC agreement. In my era it is now BN-Penn Central/Conrail.) The only picture I have is this: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4842926 I have run through all the pages I have in my links with no luck with any others.

Additionally, as I don't normally model east coast railroads, I could use any ideas in order to obtain the right HO scale decals for updating the dimensional data.

As usual, any assistance that can be provided would be most welcomed.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 10:49 PM

FRRYKid
...I am needing to get the reporting marks accurate for that era....

Well, there's likely a good chance that at least some of the reporting marks would be the same  as is shown on your linked photo.  The font used had been a Central standard for some time, and would have carried on until a car got re-lettered for Penn Central or, in some cases, got a completly new paint job.
 
The New York Central/Pennsylvania merger was Feb. 1, 1968, and it would be very unlikely that all of the combined rolling stock would have been re-lettered as Penn/Central on that day.


I have a fair amount of NYC freight cars on my late '30s-era layout, and those have reporting marks not only for the Central itself, but also a number of their affiliated lines, such as the B&A (Boston & Albany), P&LE (Pittsburg & Lake Erie, MC (Michigan Central), CCC&StL (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis), PMc K&Y (Pittsburgh McKeesport & Youghiogheny), and CASO (Canada Southern).  Some carried the older New York Central Lines herald and others the more recent New York Central System, which was being phased-in around that time.  Over time, those various roads all came under the umbrella of the New York Central System, and were lettered as such.  In some cases, number series may have been changed to avoid duplications.

I have lots of photos of older Central cars, but likely very few of them would have survived to Penn Central, so I'm not able  to offer much more.

Wayne

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 11:38 PM

Hi,

Scroll down to the XM 45xxx section.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-frt.htm

 

Hope that helps, Ed

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Posted by FRRYKid on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 12:23 AM

gmpullman

Hi,

Scroll down to the XM 45xxx section.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-frt.htm

Hope that helps, Ed 

I have that particular site in my collection. Somehow I missed those on my first pass. Thank you.

To clarify on the decals, the car I'm getting has the original data from 4-57. I figure the info will have changed over the years from the various reshopping especially for the 70s era that I model. (aka http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc45210d12.jpg) Hence why I'm looking for decals for the reshopping.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 3:32 AM

FRRYKid
...To clarify on the decals, the car I'm getting has the original data from 4-57. I figure the info will have changed over the years from the various reshopping especially for the 70s era that I model....

Don't let the re-weigh data mislead you:  all that it indicates is that the car has had some sort of relatively minor modification which changed its LT WT (weight when empty) with a corresponding change in the LD LMT (load limit).

If, on the other hand, if the 4-57 represents the BLT (built date), it would be very unlikely to need changing, unless the car had been re-built:  A shop could remove the sides, ends, and roof from a boxcar (like the fate of the prototype of the model shown below) and replace those items with new ones, yet the BLT date would not change unless the frame had also been modified.  My model's prototype did get new sides, ends, and roof, but kept its original fishbelly underframe and its original BLT date.

For a car with a 50 ton CAPY (capacity), like NYC 45210, the sum of the LD LMT and the LT WT  must be 169000 (there were different, but similar, standards for cars with different capacities). 
However, the data shown on 45210 appears to be incorrect, as the total of those two figures is 177000.   That's not a great disparity, but somebody wasn't very good at math, in my opinion.  The LD LMT should be 109500 (if the weight is correct).

I model the late '30s and most of my cars have data representing re-weighing, which, in the year 1948 and earlier, was done at intervals of every 30 months.

Champ, unfortunately no longer around, offered re-weigh data, which included the symbols which represented re-weigh scale locations in much of North America, and those sets included the explanation that I'm offering here.  The reweigh station (AJ) for this car was a Central facility, but I can't find my reference list for its actual location.  The Champ sets also included the re-pack data (the info below the AJ).

The re-weigh intervals were increased in 1948 to 48 months.

Here's a re-worked Train Miniature car representing a NYC car built in 1918.  The prototype of this car was rebuilt into a steel-sided boxcar in 1935...

The star beside the LD LMT indicates that the car's owner has reduced the load limit due to structural limitations or other reasons.
 
With the re-weigh date shown, it's a good bet that when it left the Town of Dunnville, where I took the photo, and returned to home rails, it likely would have been sent  directly to the MDT shops for re-building as a steel boxcar.

Wayne

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Posted by NHTX on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 9:13 AM

FRRYkid,

    As suggested by GMPullman, investigate the rrfallenflags.org site to see additional NYC cars in the number series you are interested in.  The car you referenced on rrpicturearchives.net is painted in the "Early Bird Service" scheme which the NYC instituted post WWII.  By your time frame, the cars that still bore the "Early Bird" were getting pretty ragged and many were already repainted into the jade green "cigar band" herald scheme or even ...Penn Central green, if not simply scrapped.

    Down here in south Texas on the SP in the early 1980s, I managed to photograph NYC 45210, 45521 and 46404 of the 45000-46899 series.  The 45210 was jade green with the smaller cigar band herald, while 45521 and 46404 were "Early Birds", at least 25-30 years old.  The longevity of the 45521 and 46404 might be attributed to the fact that they were in auto parts service although the lettering on 46404 had faded so badly as to become unreadable at a distance, while 45521 had the reporting marks and the digital portions of the capacity-load limit-light weight data restenciled at some point in time.  One thing to note: when these things get restenciled, it is not always a home road shop that does the work and, the font and sometimes, the color is whatever is on hand and in the paint gun.  

     Unfortunately, we are in an era where most of the decal suppliers such as Walthers, Champ, Islington Station and, Oddballs, are LONG gone.  Champ offered the NYC Early Bird as set HB-335 and, the cigar band as set HB-346.  I believe a fellow out of Tampa FL by the name of Greg Komar offered NYC sets as dry transfers as did a company out of Canada, known as C-D-S Dry Transfers.  To the best of my knowledge, only the cigar band scheme is available from Microscale as their set, 87-58.  If you really want to, you could use the Penn Central font which Microscale also makes.

     Don't be shy about running NYC cars in eastern Montana.  Just like Pennsy, Santa Fe, Espee, and a few others, they had enough cars to make it very difficult to avoid seeing them on a main line, anywhere in North America.

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Posted by dti406 on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 9:24 AM

Okay, the Bowser Car is a foobie, the correct car is a Branchline (Now Atlas) #1100 with Despatch Ends and Roof which the Bowser Car does not have.

This is my go to list for anything related to NYC Freight Cars.

New York Central freight car roster (canadasouthern.com)

The prototype is a lot 862-B as would be noted at the top of the car over the Early Bird Symbol.

Car I built using Branchline kit with Greg Komar Decals.

As repainted and renumbered after Penn Central.

Rick Jesionowski

 

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

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Posted by FRRYKid on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 12:41 PM

NHTX

By your time frame, the cars that still bore the "Early Bird" were getting pretty ragged and many were already repainted into the jade green "cigar band" herald scheme or even ...Penn Central green, if not simply scrapped.

The pictures I have seen seem to look pretty good to me. (e.g. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc45210d12.jpg from 70s by the repack, http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4842926 from 2-5-78)

doctorwayne
 
Don't let the re-weigh data mislead you:  all that it indicates is that the car has had some sort of relatively minor modification which changed its LT WT (weight when empty) with a corresponding change in the LD LMT (load limit). 

It still changes the info on the car and needs to be on the car at least in my thinking.

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 1:23 PM

All that you'd have to do is paint over the "NEW 4-57" and add a decal for a later date closer to your era. Not sure for Conrail where their shops were, but I would think any Conrail HO boxcar decal set would have the appropriate decals. Same for the new data, just paint over "108500" and "60500" and add new numbers. The rest would stay as is.

Stix
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Posted by cv_acr on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 1:32 PM

"DES" (Despatch Shops) would be a common NYC shop code for re-weighing.

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Posted by FRRYKid on Thursday, January 14, 2021 12:43 AM

wjstix

All that you'd have to do is paint over the "NEW 4-57" and add a decal for a later date closer to your era. Not sure for Conrail where their shops were, but I would think any Conrail HO boxcar decal set would have the appropriate decals. Same for the new data, just paint over "108500" and "60500" and add new numbers. The rest would stay as is.

That's my plan. The pic I think I want to use is this: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc45210d12.jpg

With a 64 reweigh date, I almost think that I would still use an NYC set as PC didn't come in until 68.

I would use this one http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4842926 as it would be a little closer to my era but I can't read the reweigh date in the picture. (I can read all the rest.)

Found a couple ideas for the lettering: https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-York-Central-Boxcar-HO-Scale-Decal-Set-Earlybird-Service-Walthers-71120/114559979583, and https://www.ebay.com/itm/Microscale-Decal-87-58-New-York-Central-40-and-50-Boxcars-1958-1968/381993671802

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by wjstix on Friday, January 15, 2021 8:46 AM

Keep in mind it wouldn't really change when Conrail came in. The three letter designation for the re-weigh date is just which shop did the work. As Chris points out, if an NYC boxcar was reweighed at the Merchant Despatch shops just before the PC merger, it would say something like "DES 9-67". If later in the PC era, the same shops worked on the car, it would say "DES 7-71". If Conrail kept the shop open, it might later say "DES 11-77".

Stix
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Posted by NHTX on Friday, January 15, 2021 9:14 AM

    In your first post on this subject, you said the car in question was a Bowser model.  In that light and, your interest in detail accuracy, the Bowser 50' double door boxcar is a long way from being a model of a NYC Lot 862B 50' double door boxcar.  If an accurate model of a Lot 862B is your goal, please consider the Branchline model now sold by Atlas, as illustrated in dti406's response.  The original Branchline kits came with a selection of roof and ends including accurate Despatch Shops components as used on the Lot 862B cars which were the only boxcars I can find wearing the "Early Bird" scheme.   

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