I am programming my decoders on my first DCC installs. ( MT USA) I am wondering if B units would have a bell and or horn. My assumtion is it would at least have a bell, since some B units can be moved independantly in yard movements. I have not found any units that have a visible horn but that does not mean there would not be one for a Hostler's use.
Perry
Simple answer, "that depends". Off hand I would say "no" to horns, and "maybe" to bells.
What loco's are you attemping to model?
I did look at what info I had collected on BN's B30-7AB and the answer I came up with would be NO to both.
The best option would be to search all the RR photo sites for the particular RR you're modeling to see what they had.
Yes to horns and likely to bells on booster units. Those alarms would be used when the boosters would be moved by hostlers at a terminal. The single note horn would be on the back of the unit nearest the hostler control. And if we check there is likely an AAR rule about this.
Ed in Kentucky
See Section 2 paragraph 220 about hostler operation of an F7 booster. F-7 Operator's Manual - F7-0-651 (rr-fallenflags.org)
texasperryI have not found any units that have a visible horn but that does not mean there would not be one for a Hostler's use.
Sometimes they are mounted on the roof of the B unit (Alco and FM), other times on the end wall, aimed downward (EMD). From what I've seen they are a smaller single trumpet horn such as a Leslie A-100.
PRR_EMD-horn-crop by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
Ed might provide a shot of the actual hostling controls (not a unit like the one on the Hayti that has a control stand arrangement installed) to show what is provided for horn control -- the bell control is a globe valve!
My suspicion is that it's a palm-style valve for the horn, like a horn button on a contemporary automobile. Some steam locomotives, late NYC Mohawks among them, apparently got this style of whistle/horn valve...
Here's some interior shots of WP 925C at Portola. Looks like the horn valve is a standard lever type. Looks like they were nice enough to include a heater for the poor guy working back there with the porthole open to see out of.
WPRM - WP 925C (wplives.org)
Different railroads would of course have different practices.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Here's another shot, of the control stand in CP 1900, a F9B which is currently part of their executive fleet:
https://railpictures.net/photo/441606/
ALCO/MLW and FM/CLC B-units had the control stand in slightly different places, but it was the same idea. Independent brake, brake pipe in/out valve, reverser, and a throttle that probably only went up to about notch 4. And you had to open a door or window and lean out to watch for signals.
The only B-units I've ever seen with bells were BC Rail's eight M420B's, which also had a full control stand complete with a normal automatic brake valve. I don't know if it ever happened, but they should have been capable of leading trains in a pinch.
All the other B-units I've ever seen just had a one-note horn and no bell.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
In the Railfan pic: Between the porthole and the caged light is a black thing that reminds me of the Greek god Priapus (god of gardens), what is that?
Below and to the right of the Emergency Brake is another smaller Priaprism device, is that forward and reverse?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
It's the main air reservoir safety valve. Should be set to lift at 150 PSI, which is 10 or 15 PSI higher than what the air compressor should be set to maintain.
Hopefully it never pops while someone is operating the controls, they are freaking loud!
The upper handle with the round knob is the throttle. The long bolt is the reverser handle, it goes into the little hole just above where it is sitting in the photo.
BigDaddyBetween the porthole and the caged light is a black thing that reminds me of the Greek god Priapus.
Henry, I Googled that... thanks.
SD70DudeIt's the main air reservoir safety valve. <SNIP> Hopefully it never pops while someone is operating the controls, they are freaking loud!
No kidding! I cannot believe it is mounted right next the the control stand. It it went off while an operator was there, he would jump for sure.
Not to even mention the tremendous amount of air that comes out of one of those things. Imagine all the dust and debris that might fly around.
It seems very hazardous.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
LastspikemikeAnd there I was just yesterday moving my F7B with no cab unit attached. It was suggested, ahem, that this was not done prototypically.
http://www.godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=348
Note the horn location.
I'm pretty sure one series of the GE, Amtrak, P40DC and P32AC had hostler stands, and an added window, for back-up moves.
https://railpictures.net/photo/448530/
They have been removed in subsequent rebuilds.
LastspikemikeMind you, I drove it out of the pusher track siding (at this point still imaginary) all the way to the end of a mainline connection (an imaginary 100+ miles away) which may have raised an eyebrow or two, prototypically.
Ya, the B units with hostler controls was just so a hostler could move the B unit by itself around the servicing area of a yard, or from a roundhouse or enginehouse stall into place in a consist, etc....like a few hundred feet and only now and then.
Keep in mind not all B units would have hostler controls, so I would imagine wouldn't have bells or horns. Early B units were often attached to an A unit with a drawbar as an A-B set, or (with the FTs) in an A-B-A set using an FTSB between two FT A units, so would very rarely need to be moved by themselves.
[quote user="DanRaitz"]
All good information A real learning for me. I think for general use I will turn bell and horn off. maybe map a single horn to another funtion key so if I did want to yard hostle them.
gmpullman wrote: "I'm pretty sure one series of the GE, Amtrak, P40DC and P32AC had hostler stands, and an added window, for back-up moves"
I might still have the operating manual for a Genesis engine upstairs, will look for it tomorrow.
You'll note in your pic above that the engines 705 and 711 are P32's. They don't even have a rear door on them back to the coaches due to the equipment arrangement inside.
The window was there for the conductor/assistant conductor to look out through while the engineer made the backup move from the head end.
All the other Genesis engines DID have an openable rear door with a window for the conductor or a/c to look through.
texasperryI did look at what info I had collected on BN's B30-7AB and the answer I came up with would be NO to both.
Not sure now if the OP is talking about booster units - that is, B units normally used with cab engines like EMD F7s, or cabless versions of locomotives like GPs?
BTW EMD FTs had four portholes on each side, except IIRC B units that had hostler controls had an extra window on one side for the hostler to open and stick his head out while moving the unit around the servicing area.
wjstixBTW EMD FTs had four portholes on each side, except IIRC B units that had hostler controls had an extra window on one side for the hostler to open and stick his head out while moving the unit around the servicing area.
I was under the impression that no FT B units had hostler controls because they were all manufactured drawbar-connected to A units and could not be seperated (as manufactured).
Someone correct me if this is wrong.
LastspikemikeWe suspend disbelief routinely in our hobby. I was running in compressed time, at the time.
SeeYou190I was under the impression that no FT B units had hostler controls because they were all manufactured drawbar-connected to A units and could not be seperated (as manufactured).
When they were made 'separable' with couplers is the case you want to investigate. Note that this would inherently involve providing some kind of MU connection, with harnesses connected to the various equipment including appropriate sanders, and a hostling stand might be a relatively small part of the required rebuilding, especially if anyone operating a 'separated' B-unit needed to hostle it separated from something with a cab.
I suspect this is a known and documented situation with ATSF tech historians, of which I am not one.
Yes, I believe Overmod is correct. As originally designed and built, the B units were connected to the A units with a drawbar and considered one unit - there wasn't even a door in the vestibule between them, so if they were separated both were open to the elements on one end. The fifth window and hostler controls didn't come along until EMD jerry-rigged a coupler to allow the A-B sets to be broken up (originally done at Santa Fe's request I think?)