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EMD F unit (or E unit) nose lift rings?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Berwyn, PA
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EMD F unit (or E unit) nose lift rings?
Posted by Trainman440 on Wednesday, September 16, 2020 10:09 PM

I've always known of their existance, both my railroads (ATSF, PRR) had them on their E and F units. But I never understood how they could possibly come into use.

Most lift rings are on the top of the engine, so they could be lifted up in the shops. How in the heck would these come into use? There's no way they lifted the engine to the point where they were nose up! Were they for pulling engines out of a ditch...? How often would that have to be for them to install these hooks?

Just a curious modeler,

Charles

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Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, September 16, 2020 11:15 PM

There were also lift rings on the rear, sometimes on either side of the rear door.  Its just they aren't as visible and the end of E units isn't photographed that much.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, September 16, 2020 11:54 PM

Trainman440
Most lift rings are on the top of the engine, so they could be lifted up in the shops. How in the heck would these come into use?

The lift rings on top of the locomotives are for lifting access panels or sub-assemblies, not the entire locomotive.

The big nose lift rings on the front of some E/F Units, along with the ones in the rear might be able to lift the entire locomotive, but an expert will need to verify.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, September 17, 2020 12:38 AM

Hello:

 Nose_lift by Edmund, on Flickr

The early deliveries of EMD E7 and F3 locomotives did not have nose "lift horns" but were subsequently applied between 9-49 and 11-1953. EMD did not like the idea and showed concern, especially with the longer E7 units that the crumple zone behind the cab could possibly be damaged by lifting by the nose.

EMD recommended lifting by the bolster jacking pads but the PRR 150 ton cranes could only reach in about five-feet over the nose of a cab unit. The lift horns were soon developed. EMD applied them to locomotives delivered after January, 1949 and noted that they were a PRR design thus, presumably, assuming no liability if they failed for any reason.

SeeYou190
The big nose lift rings on the front of some E/F Units, along with the ones in the rear might be able to lift the entire locomotive, but an expert will need to verify.

Far from being any expert but from what I gather PRR only permitted a lift at one end at a time using the lift lugs.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, September 17, 2020 8:26 AM

gmpullman
EMD applied them to locomotives delivered after January, 1949 and noted that they were a PRR design thus, presumably, assuming no liability if they failed for any reason.

If they were a PRR design, another possibility is that Pennsylvania had patented the design.

Stix
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Posted by Trainman440 on Thursday, September 17, 2020 10:05 AM

Very interesting Ed! So that's what the circles ontop of the diaphragm was for. Make a lot more sense now.

I also see these lift horns on other railroad E/F units as well. Never knew they were developed by the PRR. 

They do certainly look a bit odd place on the nose of the loco. It does seem precarious lifting engines from both ends instead of the middle.

Thanks for the info!

Charles

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Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO

Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLb3FRqukolAtnD1khrb6lQ

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, September 17, 2020 1:18 PM

Trainman440
Never knew they were developed by the PRR. 

I didn't mean for you to infer this was a PRR "development" rather a modification to the EMD design (lifting pads at the truck bolster) for lifting a locomotive. Railroad engineering departments loved producing drawings by the carload. It was their forte so the existence of the attached drawing doesn't necessarily make it a PRR design but simply PRR's "approved method" for having the ability to lift in the field using available equipment.

There was considerable correspondance between PRR and EMD in regards to this before settling on an agreeable design. EMD was especially concerned about stress to the "crumple zone" behind the cab.

Thank you, Ed

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Posted by dehusman on Thursday, September 17, 2020 6:52 PM

I'm sure the crews were comforted knowing that the cab was part of the "crumple zone".

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, September 17, 2020 8:09 PM

dehusman
I'm sure the crews were comforted knowing that the cab was part of the "crumple zone".

At least one crew could testify —

 PRR_5805_CUS by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Sunday, September 20, 2020 1:25 AM

Looks like somebody took an unpaid vacation....that's an example of what an old head once called "damn loose railroadin". Here's the story over on Classic Trains

http://cs.trains.com/ctr/f/3/t/275475.aspx

 

 

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