Hi guys, I've been reading a bit more about Santa Fe and their practices. I came upon this article, http://old.atsfrr.org/resources/Sandifer/FT/RedLit.htm, that talks about how all Santa Fe engines have a red rear light. I suddenly became confused because I recalled that while my BLI Santa Fe 2-10-2's (nonlit) rear light is red, BLI's Santa Fe 4-8-4 is white.
Doing some further research, I note that Brass Train's brass engines also have varying tender with white and red rear lights.
Red:
White:
(Im aware I shouldnt take what others paint their brass engines as valid evidence, but I was curious what others did)
Reading some other forums(https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/back-up-light-lens-for-the-santa-fe-class-5011-s-tender), I find people seem to say that it should be white...but the SFHS is a highly reputable source...
To me, it seems too small to be a proper rear light, so being a red marker(or warning light) makes more sense. But who knows?
Does anyone have any definitive answer?
PS I know, I really should buy some book relating to the santa fe...
Thanks!
Charles
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I don't want to go against someone like Jack Wheelihan, but I note the people who commented in the O Gauge Forum were speaking of locomotives with rear headlights, not with reference to ATSF practice ... which appears to be pretty specific with respect to these lights and what they do. There has been similar discussion about what the red oscillating lights on the front of engines like the Milwaukee 4-8-4s or UP8444 were for -- they are not typical 'anticollision' Mars lights, but very specific warning to facing trains on close double track that a train has made an emergency stop (and to watch appropriately for derailed cars or shifted loads).
The immediate next-step fact check might be to the New Mexico group that has restored 2926 -- if any modern effort would have this detail right and thoroughly photodocumented, they'd be it.
While you're talking with them you can confirm if those two little posts in the picture of 2900's tender are marker-light brackets for 'conventional' running light as a "train"...
Even more interesting detail at the provided link, which I did not know before, is the presence of the two little white lenses facing down in these lights, to illuminate things like cut lever, coupler and grabirons. I don't think I have ever seen these reproduced in lighting, although they clearly should be as they appear to be present for both steam and diesel (and the further assumption for steam is that the light is located far enough back on the tender that the two lenses bear past the end bulkhead).
There is also mention that a tender light showing red to the rear also has a white lens illuminating the tender deck, but I don't think that was shown clearly in the selection of photos in the link.
I do find it unusual, now that I think about it, that ATSF does not seem to have 'backup' headlights on much of this power. Presumably there was something provided for hostling or reverse moves in the dark, and it would be more than something like white-light markers standing in for white flags -- a portable headlight like the ones used on some interurbans? I see no evidence that the red lens on modern power could be swapped for a white comparable Fresnel or bullseye, or run with the door open to expose the bulb and reflector as a 'white light'.
Look in a steam era ATSF rule book and it will tell you what color the lights should be and when they are used.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I'm not an SF guy but reading the article the red light was only when operating in yard limits. If the locomotive was connected to something then the light was not on or lighted. A locomotive displaying markers to the rear would be something entirely different such as a pusher on a section of a train.
The red light mentioned in the article seems to be a safety thing to indicate an unscheduled move in yard limits. Not knowing the SF I couldn't tell you if they had rear headlights on their road locomotives.
Pete
Ah yea, my bad, I didnt mean red marker, rather an indicator light.
I'll try to contact the 2926 restoration team for more info. From google images, it seems like both 2926 and 3751's tender indicator lights are red.
Indeed, Santa Fe's road engines rarely had rear lights. Hence in BLI's release of the 2-10-2, the road pilot version only had the small red light, whereas the switcher pilot version had both a rear light and a small red light.
wrench567I'm not an SF guy but reading the article the red light was only when operating in yard limits. If the locomotive was connected to something then the light was not on or lighted. A locomotive displaying markers to the rear would be something entirely different such as a pusher on a section of a train. The red light mentioned in the article seems to be a safety thing to indicate an unscheduled move in yard limits. Not knowing the SF I couldn't tell you if they had rear headlights on their road locomotives.
I would like to see those rules because I haven't seen anything like that in any other rule book.
Markers indicate a "train", but wouldn't be needed in yard limits, which allow "trains and engines" to use the main track (with conditions).
From the 1953 AT&SF Rules.
Rule 17 (A). When an engine is running backward a white light must be displayed by night on the rear of the tender or unit.
Rule 18 (A). (amended April 1 1956) By night, a detached road engine when in yard under conditions not requiring the display of markers, must display a light on the rear of tender or unit. (It does not specify a color, just a light)
Jeff