Santa Fe Freight Locos

[Anonymous]

I hope this is not a real dumb question, but here it is anyhow.

I have seen numerous layouts and layout photos using red & silver warbonnets (F3's, F7's, PA's, etc.) to pull freight consists. However, I can't seem to locate any "real life" photos of this. All of the freights are hauled by freight blue & yellow locos (FT's F7's etc.)

Did the Santa Fe ever use their red & silver warbonnets to pull freight on a regular basis or even in power shortages?

I have a warbonnet F7 ABBA & passenger consist, and am wondering if these engines would have ever pulled a freight consist. I have SF freight cars and caboose and would like to know if it would be remotely prototypical. I am modeling the transition era 1959-1960.

One final question, I read that up until 1960 ATSF still had some steam on their roster and had used some as late as 1957. Did they ever use any after that, since they shopped a lot of steam locomotives during that time?

[Anonymous]

There is a photo of 3 Santa Fe dual-service F7s in the red warbonnet scheme--an A and 2 Bs, lead by the 338L, on a freight train in George Spier's "Trackside Around Chicago 1956-1965." The caption dates the photo March 1959, so that should be right up your alley.

Sorry, but I can't help on the steam question.

[ndbprr]

One of the first things you learn when you start to model a specific road is to never say something never happened. SInce I don't model ATSF I can't say definitively but as passenger service waned and F units became available I'd bet that some did find themsleves hauling freight.. I'd also bet it was fairly rare but no doubt it did happen. As you probably know ATSF practice had been to use the red and silver scheme on freight units prior to the merger with BN. Now to be nit picky - ATSF rebuilt F7's into CF7's which were used for freight so I'm pretty certain passenger F7's wound up in freight service just not in red and silver.

[Anonymous]

Santa Fe had quite a few recently shopped steam engines in storage after 1957, but they never turned a wheel. Santa Fe kept a few of the modern 2-10-4 steamers around for a anticipated wheat rush but it never materialized to be strong enough to demand that the steam locos be pulled out of storage. New diesels were being delivered in large numbers and the call for duty never came.

Several other railroads kept up their steam power to the end so lots of great locomotives with many miles left in them went to the scrapper. Some steam locomotives were not even ten years old when they were scrapped. Just imagine a 1995 diesel being scrapped today. That's what happened to 100's of steamers.

Santa Fe ordered several sets of 325 class F7 dual service passenger diesels. They worked equally well on freight or passenger trains. As passenger service declined even the regular passenger locos found their way powering freight trains in Texas and the San Joaquin Valley of California. They were too old to power the fast trains of the double track main, but they saw plenty of service in lesser trains around the system.

Even the big AlCo PA diesels saw freight service. As the F7 passenger engines were used up on local trains they begin to be rebuilt into the CF-7 locomotives, basically cannabilized for all the parts and frame structure that the shop needed for the new CF7, with the rest scrapped.

There are numerous pictures in the Morning Sun book series of color pictures on Santa Fe diesels showing the warbonnet locomotives in freight service. Some power consists include up to ten engines at one time, a mixture of warbonnet and blue/yellow paint. Some of the Redwarbonnet engines became Bluebonnet engines with the red changed to blue, and some even became Yellowbonnets with the red changed into yellow. Santa Fe tried several schemes to make the passenger engines fit into the freight style, but for the most part the red and silver stayed on the engines until they were scrapped or rebuilt into CF-7's..

So you can very well mix and match just any of these first generation EMD diesels into consists of GP-9's, other F7's,. early ALCo's etc.

[cspmo]

I have a DVD from Green Frog " Chicago Odyssey" There is a sceen with couple different freight trains with F-7 in red,& silver warbonnets, also couple passenger trains with F-7 in red,& silver warbonnets.

[Anonymous]

If I remember correctly all F7 A units were not equipt with steam generators only the B units recieved them, so it probably wasn't to uncommon to see them in freight service. Especially after Amtrak was formed I imagine alot of F units in Red and Silver paint were left to be used in freight service.
Heres some photos
Alco PA
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=50098
EMD F7s
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=55157
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=52724

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all for the great info and even some photos.

I guess now I can run my F7 ABBA ahead of a freight consist with a clear conscience!

Now the hard part, how to run some Santa Fe steam in 1960!

[Anonymous]

The only steam train running with a Santa Fe name on it in 1960 was the Santa Fe and Disneyland Railroad in Anaheim.

Not too many modelers get into dates so closely that they can't allow some steam or early diesel to fit into a layout. I wouldn't worry about a few years in prototypical reference if you enjoy operating a steam engine.

[SSW9389]

I remember when I was a kid going to Chillicothe Illinois with my mom and her pointing out the lines of stored steam engines at the west end of the yard. This would have been in 1959 or 1960. I have a newspaper clipping from the Peoria Journal Star showing four dead Santa Fe steamers in train going off to scrap in Kansas City.

As far as passenger F units in freight service as has been mentioned the dual service F7ABB sets with 83 MPH gearing are the most likely ones. The other passenger F3s and F7s had higher gear ratios that would preclude them from pulling heavy trains.

The years being modeled were a transition period for Santa Fe from first to second generation diesels. The new low nosed RSD-15s and SD24s started delivery in 1959 and continued in 1960. The GP20s debuted on Santa Fe in 1960. Also of note is the new billboard paint scheme first in Black and Aluminum and then in Blue and Yellow.

[Anonymous]

When you run your ATSF F's in freight service, make sure that they are 300 class units which were dual purpose ie geared for 80mph not 100 for passenger or 70 for freight. There is one AB survivor 347C and 347B at the California State Railroad Museum.
Ch

[locgg2020]

Back on the Southern Division in Temple , Tx. during the 50's and 60's dual service 325 class F-7 consist -342LA344LA was assigned to Temple for emergency passenger use. Most of the time it was used between Cleburne and Bellville Yard on trains 37 and 40. That period our frieght units out of Temple were mostly 100 class FT units.It was like having a Cadilac to catch the warbonnet F-7 with beautiful chime whistle. The 325 class dual service locos were used all over the system in frt. service however on our Lampasas District it was not used because of tonnage restrictions of the grades.
Gordon Locke
ATSF retired

[leighant]

Steam on 1960s layout--
trackage rights by shortline that still uses steam (for instance, Santa Fe allowed trackage rights by log trains ("trams") of Kirby Lumber Company over Santa Fe rails in East Texas. Kirby used what Russell Crump called an "ancient diesel" at the time, but steamers on a similar operation would not be out of the question. MC&SA ran steam in East Texas in 1965 when their one diesel broke down.

fan trip service

movie filming train

[Anonymous]

You could always have a historical excursion set up. I have an old freight/passenger terminal building and a general store that I am using as a museum and gift shop, displaying a static UP Big Boy as a tourist attraction with a few antique cars and trucks. Why don't you have your steamer as an operating tourist attraction? Just because it wasn't really done doesn't mean you can't share the track with commercial trains.