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Bethlahem Steel Hoppers

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Bethlahem Steel Hoppers
Posted by Motley on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 4:01 PM

Why are these hoppers named Bethlahem Steel? Were these used/owned by the mill?

Michael


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Posted by NHTX on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 4:09 PM

     They could have been built by Bethlehem, or as you suggest, owned by them.  With no picture or relevant info such as reporting marks and number, there no way to determine which.

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 5:09 PM

Assuming you are talking about the Tangent Bethlehem Steel hoppers:

https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/bethlehem-quad-hopper/

That's because the prototype hoppers were manufactured by Bethlehem Steel.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 6:11 PM

Did those hoppers ever venture west, or were they used primarly in the Northeast?

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Posted by dti406 on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 6:32 PM

Since the UP owned a slew of them, I would guess they ventured west!

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 6:38 PM

ATSFGuy
Did those hoppers ever venture west, or were thry used primarly in the Northeast?

The question is backwards, since the primary owner was the UP.   Did they ever venture northeast, or were they primarily used in the west?    Some of them went east.

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 10:20 PM

Ohh nice! Glad to hear they were made by Bethlahem Steel. Because I just decided (last night) to build an additional layout in another room next to the main room.

And I want to model Bethlhem Steel Mill. Yes I was referring to Tangent scale model hoppers. Looks like I will be purchasing a bunch of those now.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, September 12, 2019 9:16 AM

Bethlehem Steel wasn't just one mill in Bethlehem PA 

They were the largest ship builder and second largest steel producer.  They produced naval artillery, liberty ships, the golden gate bridge and railcars for nearly 70 years. 

 

Henry

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, September 12, 2019 9:34 AM

BigDaddy

Bethlehem Steel wasn't just one mill in Bethlehem PA 

They were the largest ship builder and second largest steel producer.  They produced naval artillery, liberty ships, the golden gate bridge and railcars for nearly 70 years. 

 

 

 
Ya that is incredible what they did. I've been watching a bunch of youtube videos on Bethlahem. Just too bad they went bankrupt in 1996.

Michael


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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, September 12, 2019 9:51 AM

ATSFGuy

Did those hoppers ever venture west, or were they used primarly in the Northeast?

The D&RGW purchased 2795 Bethlehem 100 ton 12 panel quad hoppers between 1964 and 1982, referred to sometimes as "the great steel fleet".

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by dti406 on Thursday, September 12, 2019 10:10 AM

dehusman

 

 
ATSFGuy
Did those hoppers ever venture west, or were thry used primarly in the Northeast?

 

The question is backwards, since the primary owner was the UP.   Did they ever venture northeast, or were they primarily used in the west?    Some of them went east.

 

The DT&I had some of them for hauling coke from Ironton to McClouth Steel in Dearborn, only had them for a few years until the south end of the DT&I was abandoned after the GT takeover.

Rick Jesionowski

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Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

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Posted by Lazers on Thursday, September 12, 2019 1:16 PM

Hi, finding-out all this info' is interesting. At a recent (UK) Model Railway Ex, I picked-up some Bachmann HO 'Silver-Seal' 3-Bay Bethlehem 100T. Open Hoppers, boxed and in new, unused condition, for £8.0 (@10.0$) each.

I presumed they were for the Beth Steel Corp', the one I knew of was along Lake Michigan So'-Shore, but noted the UP, N&S and Wheeling & Lake Erie decals, so I did wonder.

There is not much proto-info on the Bachmann site and the above link to the Tangent web-site is more informative albeit re 4-Bay Hoppers.

But this post suggests the need for a Model/Prototype cross-reference list, as was mentioned in a recent post by xsvtoys.

Knowing the Era, build run dates and the dates the stock were taken out of general service would at least serve to inform me that my freight cars are long out-of-date for my layout. Sorry to go a bit off-topic of this post - but thanks for the info', regards, Paul

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Posted by dehusman on Thursday, September 12, 2019 2:11 PM

Most of the steel mills the DRGW serviced were CF&I, rather than Bethlehem.

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Posted by drciesel on Thursday, September 12, 2019 7:36 PM
Actually, there is quite a bit of information available on 100 ton hoppers, Bethlehem or other built.  Jim Eager authored several very useful articles back in the mid-1990’s in the (now defunct) Rail Model Journal. These may be found in the archives preserved by TrainLife.com.
With respect to the Bachmann Silver Series 100 ton cars, here is some information that I have aggregated:
Bachmann Silver Series
Bethlehem 45ft 100 ton 12-panel Triple (30° or “straight” slope sheet)
 
Model Dimensions
Inside length: 44' 5"
Outside length over corners: 45' 9"
Coupled length: 48' 1"
Height above rails: 11' 10"
Width: 10' 7"
Bolster centers: 36' 2"
 
Reading HTG #483501-484600 45’ 3487cf (has top chord reinforcing angle iron)
C&I #1270-1319
C&O class H-64
N&W Roanoke-Built H12/H12A (s
lightly longer cars at 46-4 IL) 3570cf
            138001-141525 H-12
142001-142308 H-12
142309-143982 H-12A
 
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, September 13, 2019 10:32 AM

I know that it is your railroad, and you make the rules and all of that, but the last time I looked Bethlehem was not spelled with an 'a'.

 

ROAR

PS, If LION cannot spell a work he just makes up his onw funny spelling.

 

Elektreecity

cn yu rd ths? Nw th Ln is bng fnny. Hm trnd ff th vwls on th kbrd of hm.

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, September 13, 2019 10:40 AM

drciesel
N&W Roanoke-Built H12/H12A (slightly longer cars at 46-4 IL) 3570cf

138001-141525 H-12

142001-142308 H-12

142309-143982 H-12A

Ironically, the N&W cars may actually be more appropriate for the DRGW in the west.  I saw several unit trains of N&W cars going to the CF&I plant at Provo on the DRGW. 

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Posted by Lazers on Friday, September 13, 2019 2:32 PM

Hi, Thanks again for this info' and I hope that post originator 'Motley' is finding it useful too.

Does anyone know if any of these Hoppers are still in use today? I realise that given the vastness of USA Railroads, it could be an infinite question. Thanks, Paul

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Posted by Motley on Friday, September 13, 2019 5:33 PM

Yes I am loving all this info on these cars. And the fact that D&RGW was using these, and the fact that I am looking for D&RGW equipment.

I also just learned today that Walthers is releasing Railgon Gondola cars for the new Steel Series in D&RGW. Albeit no expected until 6/2020 I just have to wait I guess.

I'm very excited to start building a model of Bethehem Steel, year will be 1995 just before they closed.

I'm now looking for advice on which deisel locomotives (besides just switchers) during 1995 that would be servicing Bethlehem. Note that I will be using these back and forth on my main layout which is Colorado 1989-Present. If these prototype locomotives were never used in Colorado thats ok.

Lion I spelled it right? lol

Michael


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Posted by PRR8259 on Tuesday, October 08, 2019 11:10 AM

Also, Rio Grande owned 800 Bethlehem Steel built copies of the PRR H-39 three-bay hopper.  This car is currently available from Arrowhead Models, and has the Bethlehem Steel Johnstown Plant logo painted on it.  Many of the freight cars were built at Johnstown, PA.

Additionally, Southern, in June of 1966, also received 75 Bethlehem Steel copies of the H-39 hopper.  Arrowhead Models has those in stock, as well.  Since it is a repainted version, the Bethlehem Steel logo is not on this model.  One of the actual prototype Southern hoppers has been saved and is currently in a museum.

Many of the PRR H-39's were built by ACF, and the models currently available thus DO NOT have the Bethlehem Steel logo on them.

John

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Posted by PRR8259 on Tuesday, October 08, 2019 11:14 AM

Michael--

Rio Grande did NOT service Bethelehem, or even Johnstown, Pennsylvania (Bethlehem Steel owned) plants.  Rio Grande DID OWN a number of long gondolas that were constructed by Bethlehem Steel, as well as Bethlehem Steel constructed open hoppers, but those cars actually serviced the Colorado Fuel and Iron steel mill, if I have the name correct.

Please do not confuse the manufacturer of a rail car with the plants or locations actually served by said rail cars.

John

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Posted by PRR8259 on Tuesday, October 08, 2019 11:23 AM

The Pennsylvania Railroad's 16133 car fleet of H-39 three-bay hoppers was virtually gone from revenue service by 2003.

Many of those cars were constructed in the middle 1960's, though the original orders were in 1960.

The western version four-bay hoppers, being built a little later, probably made it into the 2000's, nearly to present day. Surviving open hoppers in service today on UP would most likely be 1978 or newer cars--the larger Tangent Model.

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Posted by DSchmitt on Thursday, October 10, 2019 4:41 PM

From Wikipedia

Freight cars

From 1923 to 1991, Bethlehem Steel was one of the world's leading producers of railroad freight cars through their purchase of the former Midvale Steel and Ordnance Company, whose railcar division was at Johnstown, Pennsylvania. Despite its status as a major integrated steel maker, Bethlehem Steel Freight Car Division pioneered the use of aluminum in freight car construction. The Johnstown plant was purchased from Bethlehem Steel through a management buyout in 1991, creating Johnstown America Industries.

Bethlehem Steel subsidary railroad companies  (links from site do not work but list cities they had facilities ,  Search of Reporting Marks or railroad name will find information about them)

https://www.logisticsonline.com/doc/the-subsidiary-railroad-companies-of-bethlehe-0001

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Posted by Motley on Friday, October 11, 2019 2:04 AM

PRR8259

Michael--

Rio Grande did NOT service Bethelehem, or even Johnstown, Pennsylvania (Bethlehem Steel owned) plants.  Rio Grande DID OWN a number of long gondolas that were constructed by Bethlehem Steel, as well as Bethlehem Steel constructed open hoppers, but those cars actually serviced the Colorado Fuel and Iron steel mill, if I have the name correct.

Please do not confuse the manufacturer of a rail car with the plants or locations actually served by said rail cars.

John

 

Thats ok, this is where modeling licenses come. In my world D&RGW will service Bethlehem.

Michael


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Posted by rrinker on Friday, October 11, 2019 10:14 AM

 Well, CF&I ( Colorado Fuel and Iron), most definitely serviced by DRGW, at one time controlled the furnaces of the E. G. Brooke Works in Birdsboro, PA, not all that far from Bethlehem. But that was served mainly by the Reading and PRR.

 Another thing Bethlehem Steel did was build ships - in Massachusetts at Fore River and at Sparrow's Point in Maryland.

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Posted by Motley on Sunday, October 13, 2019 8:56 PM

rrinker

 Well, CF&I ( Colorado Fuel and Iron), most definitely serviced by DRGW, at one time controlled the furnaces of the E. G. Brooke Works in Birdsboro, PA, not all that far from Bethlehem. But that was served mainly by the Reading and PRR.

 Another thing Bethlehem Steel did was build ships - in Massachusetts at Fore River and at Sparrow's Point in Maryland.

                                     --Randy

 

Thanks Randy! Gonna go research Colorado Fuel & Iron. Never heard of them.

Also I want to model an Ore Dock, Ore boat scene, so I changed locations to Bethlem Sparrows Point.

 

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, October 13, 2019 9:20 PM

 Hmm, dunno if iron ore was received at Sparrow's Point. When they closed the Grace mine, the brought ore in from South America to Phildelphia, and the Reading hauled it up to Bethlehem. Yes, as crazy as this sounds, it was cheaper for them to get ore from South America, carrier it on a ship to Phildelphia, and then carry it by train approximately the same distance as the trip from their own mine in Morgantown. 

                              --Randy

 


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Posted by Motley on Monday, October 14, 2019 11:19 AM

rrinker

 Hmm, dunno if iron ore was received at Sparrow's Point. When they closed the Grace mine, the brought ore in from South America to Phildelphia, and the Reading hauled it up to Bethlehem. Yes, as crazy as this sounds, it was cheaper for them to get ore from South America, carrier it on a ship to Phildelphia, and then carry it by train approximately the same distance as the trip from their own mine in Morgantown. 

                              --Randy

 

 

 
Wow I had no idea they shipped ore from South America. I did find out that Colorado Iron & Fuel had an ore mine in Pueblo, CO up until 2007.

Michael


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