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Run Through Power

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  • Member since
    May, 2019
  • From: Pacific Northwest
  • 49 posts
Run Through Power
Posted by corsiar on Friday, August 16, 2019 6:22 PM

What kind of run through power would be used by UP in the Wyoming area? I got a NS SD70ACe #1007 (a James Bond fan) for my UP Wyoming layout because I have seen NS locomotives on UP track but wondered if they go that far west or would a BNSF locomotive be a better match?

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, August 16, 2019 6:34 PM

I have seen on line photos of NS locomotives in California and Washington(State). 

 

Larry

SSRy

Conductor

“Shut one’s eyes tight or open one’s arms wide, either way, one’s a fool.” Flemeth-the witch of the Wilds.
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Saturday, August 17, 2019 10:17 AM

The railroads that colaborate on run-through trains use whatever poser they have in the yard, but knowing that a train would be going east they would put some NS power on that train if it was available.

UP and BNSF power is also seen on the east coast.

 

Thus any of the Class I power may be seen on any class  I railroad.

BNSF will put NS power on any train going east if there is no run through train headed that way at the moment.

Fracking Sand quaries are on the SOO (CP) line in Wisconsin, CP engines will pull the sand to Richardton, but not having empties to return right away, the power continues on to Dickinson. It will be used on any train headed east.

AFIK, the foreign road pays for the time that your power is on their line. They could use that power as they liked, knowing that it has to be paid for.

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by NHTX on Saturday, August 17, 2019 12:10 PM

Run-thru power does not generally involve monetary payments between the partners.  Compensation is based on "horsepower hours".  For the sake of simplicity, say Railroad A receives a GP38-2 from Railroad B in a run-thru and operates it for 40 hours before returning it to its owner, Railroad B.  Railroad A now owes Railroad B 80,000 horsepower hours:  2000 (GP38-2) X 40 hours=80000 horsepower hours.  Railroad A pays this off by sending one of their locomotives to Railroad B to work off this debt.

    With the number of trains running over railroads that own none of the locomotives pulling them, just keeping track of, and trying to balance horsepower hours must be a nightmare.  Trading horsepower hours is not like leasing locomotives for cash payment.  A lease is usually for a specific unit or number of units, for a certain length of time, regardless of hours used.  Normal fuel, oil and water servicing is the responsibilty of the using railroad.  Units coming due for maintenance or inspection would not be offered or accepted in run-thru service unless there was an agreement addressing these issues.  And as The Lion said, the other road's power can be used in any service it is suitable for, as long as hours are owed.

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  • From: Omaha, NE
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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, August 17, 2019 12:41 PM

Keeping track of hphrs (horsepower hours) is more of a tedious job than anything else, and fuel equalization is a separate thing in addition to the hphrs.  If I get an engine with 4000 gals in the tank and give it back with 1000 gals in the tank, I will owe the owning railroad more than if I give it back with 4000 gals in the tank.  I have been involved with calculating hphrs and fuel equalization.  Its easier since things are more computerized and there are more AEI readers.

An NS SD70ACE would be on a UP intermodal train, auto or manifest that originated or terminated in Chicago or Kansas City, to be on the UP in Wyoming.  It would be a trailing unit, never a leader (because of UP cab signals).  It would almost never be on a coal train or a grain train.  It would never be a rear DP unit.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, August 17, 2019 8:24 PM

Here we see NS units leading  in California.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/609359/

And as  DPU.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/522805/

 

Larry

SSRy

Conductor

“Shut one’s eyes tight or open one’s arms wide, either way, one’s a fool.” Flemeth-the witch of the Wilds.
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  • From: Central Iowa
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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, August 17, 2019 10:00 PM

BRAKIE

Here we see NS units leading  in California.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/609359/

And as  DPU.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/522805/

 

 

You'll see NS engines, and other foriegn line engines lead on the UP on many lines.  However, there are parts of the UP where you won't see them lead, as of now.  From Chicago west along the exCNW/UP overland route to the Ogden/Salt Lake City area UP has two forms of cab signal, one on the exCNW the other on the original UP.  On this route trains will have a UP leader.  Even though we are running most trains with PTC, cab signal equipped leaders are still required in case the PTC fails.  Eventually PTC will allow foriegn line power to lead, but that's still a ways off.

The DP is more of a recent development.  Until a few years ago, foriegn engines wouldn't be recognized by UP DP equipment, and vice versa.  That's changed as DP has evolved and upgraded.

Jeff 

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Posted by corsiar on Saturday, August 17, 2019 11:16 PM

Did some digging and found this picture.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3970379

NS 1007 has even been to WA. I have lived here 38 years and have yet to see a NS locomotive. 

  • Member since
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  • From: Omaha, NE
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Posted by dehusman on Sunday, August 18, 2019 7:37 AM

As Jeff mentioned, era matters.

Until PTC replaces UP and CNW cab signals, you won't see an NS unit as a leader in Wyoming.  Texas yes.  California yes.  Arkansas yes.  Wyoming on the E-W main, no.  Iowa on the E-W main, no.

Actually you are more likely to see and NS unit on the UP in Wyoming than a BNSF unit.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, August 18, 2019 8:53 AM

jeffhergert
The DP is more of a recent development. Until a few years ago, foriegn engines wouldn't be recognized by UP DP equipment, and vice versa. That's changed as DP has evolved and upgraded. Jeff

Jeff,Railfan rumor  has NS is using some DPs on the Pocahontas and around Horseshoe instead of manned helpers. 

Undertand I put very little stock in Railfan rumor but,would like to know one way or the other.

If true its sad.

Larry

SSRy

Conductor

“Shut one’s eyes tight or open one’s arms wide, either way, one’s a fool.” Flemeth-the witch of the Wilds.
  • Member since
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  • From: OH
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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, August 18, 2019 9:16 AM

dehusman
Actually you are more likely to see and NS unit on the UP in Wyoming than a BNSF unit.

Dave,,It's so bad at Fostoria I often wonder if U.P,CN or BNSF has any locomotives on their home rails. I spent a day in Fostoria back in June and every third traiin had U.P,CN or BNSF power. One consist had three lease units including a former DM&E unit.

Larry

SSRy

Conductor

“Shut one’s eyes tight or open one’s arms wide, either way, one’s a fool.” Flemeth-the witch of the Wilds.
  • Member since
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  • From: Central Iowa
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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, August 18, 2019 11:57 AM

BRAKIE

 

 
jeffhergert
The DP is more of a recent development. Until a few years ago, foriegn engines wouldn't be recognized by UP DP equipment, and vice versa. That's changed as DP has evolved and upgraded. Jeff

 

Jeff,Railfan rumor  has NS is using some DPs on the Pocahontas and around Horseshoe instead of manned helpers. 

Undertand I put very little stock in Railfan rumor but,would like to know one way or the other.

If true its sad.

 

Being in Iowa, I can't confirm but there's a thread on the Trains side about a couple of recent stringline derailments on Horseshoe Curve.  One post mentioned the possiblity that a DP unit stopped loading, allowing the head end to pull some cars over for one of the incidents.

I did read something else about NS starting to use DP more often outside of the coal mining areas.  I think it said they feel that they'll be need 500 less engines system wide by using DP.  It may have been a Trains News Wire thing.

Jeff 

  • Member since
    October, 2001
  • From: OH
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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, August 18, 2019 6:37 PM

jeffhergert
I did read something else about NS starting to use DP more often outside of the coal mining areas. I think it said they feel that they'll be need 500 less engines system wide by using DP.

Thanks Jeff.. 

Larry

SSRy

Conductor

“Shut one’s eyes tight or open one’s arms wide, either way, one’s a fool.” Flemeth-the witch of the Wilds.
  • Member since
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  • From: Equestria
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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 4:18 AM

jeffhergert
Being in Iowa, I can't confirm but there's a thread on the Trains side about a couple of recent stringline derailments on Horseshoe Curve. One post mentioned the possiblity that a DP unit stopped loading, allowing the head end to pull some cars over for one of the incidents.

Neither of those trains had DP units. Nor did they have manned helpers. 

 And yeah, NS is using more DP units on their trains, but there's still manned helpers in altoona. 

 

 The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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