On the NS Pocahontas District between Crozier and Powhatan is a 1.5 mile long center siding between the double mains. This is near the east end of the Elkhorn grade that starts just west of Welch, WV and ends just east of the Elkhorn tunnel. The grade at this point runs between 1.2% and 1.4% against eastbound traffic. I'm wondering if this grade would affect the way this siding is used. I can't imagine you'd want to stop your train that already had its momentum built up when climbing such a grade. OTOH, it's not exactly easy to stop one going down such a grade. It's about 6 miles from the uphill end of the siding to the crest of the grade. So what do you think? Is this siding used like any other or does the grade impact operations?
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Not being from the Pocahontas Region, and this sidng is on a grade that is against eastbound traffic, it seems this siding might be used only for westbound (empty) coal trains, and other light trains with ample power. Unless the train had sufficient horsepower, such as DPUs, you will likely break a knuckle or get a drawbar restarting a heavy train on that grade. That's what my thoughts are but, nothing beats asking an NS guy from that area, or acquiring an employees timetable for that region.
Assuming it's CTC, it's all flat on the dispatcher's screen.
Jeff
It won't be flat when there are pulled drawbars, snapped knuckles and other associated mis-adventures tying that piece of railroad in knots.
If my recollection is correct there was a center passing siding where the N&W 611 was passing over a switch on an employee excursion train, May 18, 1986 at Dismal Swamp, Va.. A few of the cars didn't have tightlock couplers and made matters worse when they turned on their sides. Quite a few injuries but no fatalities. Another wreck near here happened just a few weeks ago.
Not really related to the passing siding but, for me, it was the first time I had encountered a center-passing siding other than on "light-rail" systems.
FRA/NTSB has re-arranged their accident reports and I can't find the report on-line at the moment.
Regards, Ed
Middle tracks on grades were common on the N&W main line back during steam. Most if not all were taken out, but, you can still see where they were account of the wide spacing between east & west bound tracks.
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On a grade or otherwise, the center track passing siding was relatively common back in the day on east coast double track mainlines. The center track passing siding doubles as two crossovers, saving two turnouts, and saves considerable trackage expense.
I am including one in my new layout plan.
From what I remember, and have been told by several N&W modelers, they were common on that road, on grades or otherwise.
1.5% grades were/are the order of the day in the Appalachian mountains and train lengths and tonnages were adjusted accordingly. The problem grades are the 2.5% ones that are nothing but curves..........
What goes on today? I don't know, I don't follow modern railroading too close, but back in the day, a really heavy or long train may well have had a helper on the rear, or again, tonnage was based on draw bar strength taking into account the ruling grade regarding stopping and starting....
On the N&W, the J's, A's and Y6's, were some of the best steam in the world, and their engineers knew how to start and stop their trains.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALback in the day, a really heavy or long train may well have had a helper on the rear
This still happens today. Almost every train going up the Elkhorn grade picks up a set of helpers at Farm (just west of Welch) that pushes all the way to Bluefield. You regularly see light helper sets headed west to push the next train.
BigJimMiddle tracks on grades were common on the N&W main line back during steam. Most if not all were taken out, but, you can still see where they were account of the wide spacing between east & west bound tracks.
Between Bluefield and Williamson, there are still 5 or 6 that are connected to both mains at both ends plus several connected to only one main on each end (same or different) and 2 connected to both mains on one end and only one on the other.
BigJim NHTX ...you will likely break a knuckle or get a drawbar restarting a heavy train on that grade. BS!
NHTX ...you will likely break a knuckle or get a drawbar restarting a heavy train on that grade.
BS!
Big Jim,I agree it is BS.. Mountain railroading isn't for the faint of heart and knowing how to start a train on a grade is one of the requirements.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
One more thought about the original post.
We all know the railroads don't like grades, and in some parts of the country a 1.5% grade on a Class I rail line is a steep grade.
But not in Appalachia. These mountains may not be as tall as the Rockies, but they are rugged in their own ways, requiring steep grades and lots of curves to get trains over them.
Cranberry grade on the B&O is 3%. The ruling grade from Baltimore to Brunswick is 1.5% and you are not even in the mountains yet, you are just slugging up the Piedmont Platue. In the day it took two Mikados to pull 70 cars to Brunswick, they would be replaced by two 2-8-8-0's for the trip further west........
Existing almost entirely in the Piedmont, the little Ma & Pa had 2.3% grades and 16 degree curves to make the trip from Baltimore to York via the rolling hills of Baltimore, Harford and York Counties.
1.5% is not a steep grade..........at least not around here.
One of the main purposes of a center siding was to allow a passenger train or higher priority train pass a slower train.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
BigJim Middle tracks on grades were common on the N&W main line back during steam. Most if not all were taken out, but, you can still see where they were account of the wide spacing between east & west bound tracks.
Deano
OT Deande and--I think--the Sand Patch, but my memory is fuzzy as to how they were used. I think it might have been something to do with stopping freights on the down grades to cool the brake shoes, but...
Deano,You are correct the ruling grade between Russell and Shelby is a 1.5% grade(IIRC) and we would stop to let the brake shoes cool..From the coupla you could see the brake shoe smoke.
Starting a subway train on a grade is no big deal. All of the axels have traction motors on them.
Subway trains have only four positions on the controller.
Off
Switching... wired in series with resistors cut in. Only good for a few seconds before the resisators overheat.
Series... all motors on each carr wired in series. (Motors get 150 volts max)
Multiple... all motors wired in parallel. Leave it there and watch your speed climb. Coast when you are at the speed that you want. (Motors receive 600 - 650 volts)
ROAR
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