I just finished reading the article "Covered Grain Hoppers" in the July 2019 issue of Model Railroader. It helped me understand the evolution of grain transportation by rail, but my issue is this: Once grain is processed into flour, how was it transported to bakeries and other end users during the 1960's before the advent of pressure differential systems commonly used after this period. I'm trying to find the correct covered hoppers for this industrial use.
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I do not know the answer, but I am replying to bump this thread to the top where others will see it. The delay in posting resulted in it appearing down ther page.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Check out airslide covered hoppers. They used air pressure to "fluff up" the flour for easier unloading, much the same way bulk pneumatic trucks work today.
Mike.
My You Tube
Boxcars, then 2 bay covered hoppers, then airslides.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Thanks. I was thinking airslide hoppers, but wondering how they unloaded flour without contaminating the product. I suppose they used pits under the spur that could be covered tightly when not in use and fairly easily cleaned. Maybe moved by a conveyor or screw-in-a-tube? I'd like to model the transfer method from hopper to the facility. Can't seem to find any photos.
From Bufallo, it was in boxcars The Bufallo Creek Railroad had a fleet of 40' boxcars for transporting flour. They serviced almost all the elevators in Bufallo and had over 1,000 boxcars for transporting flour.
Many other railroads like the Lehigh Valley had box cars dedicated to transporting flour.
Rick Jesionowski
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dti406 From Bufallo, it was in boxcars The Bufallo Creek Railroad had a fleet of 40' boxcars for transporting flour. They serviced almost all the elevators in Bufallo and had over 1,000 boxcars for transporting flour. Many other railroads like the Lehigh Valley had box cars dedicated to transporting flour. Rick Jesionowski
Very nice looking "dedicated" box car you have there. I was looking at alternatives to box cars to provide a mix of car traffic types. This is a food processing facility that I'm scratch building and standard box cars as well as insulated boxcars will be used to deliver canned goods and certain types of temperature-sensitive food products. Would just like to mix it up a bit. I also have a cracker bakery that I'm modeling which will need a lot of flour.
In the 60s N&W was still delivering boxcars loaded with flour to the Kroger bakery in Columbus,Oh. I'm not sure if Kroger ever received airslides before the rail(Including PRR's former Cleveland Ave yard complex) was ripped out in the 70s for I-670 or if they was still receiving rail shipments before I-670 project..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Airslides are unloaded by a vacuum system. There is no "pit". Its clean, food grade, flexible stainless steel piping.
Airslides were being built in 1965, which means they existed in 1965, but weren't that common in the 60's. I remember seeing BCK flour cars on PC/CR in the mid 70's.
The transportation of flour underwent a major transition in the early 1960s. Although railroads serving milling centers maintained large groups of 40 foot boxcars dedicated to this service, the shift to covered hoppers had really taken off, especially after the introduction of General American's Airslide in the mid 1950s.
Because of the potential for contamination during unloading, the Airslide's ability to be unloaded pneumatically or mechanically caused milling companies to lease their own fleets from General American. At first, the cars were of the 2600 cu. ft., open-ended type occasionally offered by Athearn in HO. As the 4180 cu. ft. cars resembling exterior post 50 foot boxcars without doors appeared, they quickly moved into flour transport and, the 40 foot boxcar began its slide into oblivion. Other types of covered hoppers were tried in flour service but, the Airslide was the ideal car in the 1960s and 1970s. Flour tended to pack itself tightly in transit and the introduction of air into the mass tended to "fluidize" it, making it almost flow like a liquid, under pressure. This made it possible to move bulk flour from car to storage without exposure to the atmosphere, reducing the likelihood of contamination. Airslides took over the movement of most fine, dry powdered cargos such as starch, sugar, and some plastics. The 4180 is produced in HO by Tangent Scale Models and, Scale Trains in their "Rivet Counter" line. Scale Trains also produced a "Rivet Counter" model of the larger 4566 cu. ft. car, similar to the 4180. Walthers at one time marketed a train set quality car for those so inclined.
The transportation of flour in 40 foot "boxcars" made one last gasp when the Missouri Pacific converted surplus American Refrigerator Transit ice reefers into boxcars in the early 1970s which, was the end ofthe "Ice Age" in railroading. Their service lives were fairly short, most being gone before 1980.
Thank you, everyone, for your input. I'm pumped up to continue building this industry site on my layout. I've been side-tracked for a couple of years building a winter scene diorama with my daughter (that's another story all together) and getting on with my new (3rd) layout after 40 something years is top of the list. I really appreciate the community input to help me along.
A switcher moving a box car load of bagged flour from the mill, to spot at the transload facility, where it is unloaded by hand, put on pallets for easier handling to be loaded on trucks for delivery to bakeries that could not handle a box car load, let alone a siding for it. Door was left open to see inside. When it is in a train, I slide the door closed:
Take Care!
Frank
zstripeA switcher moving a box car load of bagged flour from the mill, to spot at the transload facility, where it is unloaded by hand, put on pallets for easier handling to be loaded on trucks for delivery to bakeries that could not handle a box car load, let alone a siding for it. Door was left open to see inside. When it is in a train, I slide the door closed:
Huh,Frank,Your crew needs to ask the laborers to get off the boxcar so it can be moved.
Nice photos.
BRAKIE zstripe A switcher moving a box car load of bagged flour from the mill, to spot at the transload facility, where it is unloaded by hand, put on pallets for easier handling to be loaded on trucks for delivery to bakeries that could not handle a box car load, let alone a siding for it. Door was left open to see inside. When it is in a train, I slide the door closed: Huh,Frank,Your crew needs to ask the laborers to get off the boxcar so it can be moved. Nice photos.
zstripe A switcher moving a box car load of bagged flour from the mill, to spot at the transload facility, where it is unloaded by hand, put on pallets for easier handling to be loaded on trucks for delivery to bakeries that could not handle a box car load, let alone a siding for it. Door was left open to see inside. When it is in a train, I slide the door closed:
I actually took that shot to show the other guy that was in the car unloading. Some people thought only one guy was unloading the car. Did You ever unload a box car? I did...many moons ago......kept Me in shape...LOL!
Here's with the door closed........You'd never know they were in there:
In the era where they were moving bagged grain in 40 ft boxcars unpalletized, they would have been taking it to a warehouse or a team track rather than a "transload facility". By the time "transload facilities" came into vogue, the flour would have been palletized at the mill and shipped in 50 ft boxcars (if not containers or airslides).
In the "transload" era, the mill is going to palletize it there so they can load the boxcar in a matter of hours with one or two guys and a forklift, rather than days with a half dozen guys doing it by hand.
dehusmanIn the "transload" era, the mill is going to palletize it there so they can load the boxcar in a matter of hours with one or two guys and a forklift, rather than days with a half dozen guys doing it by hand.
I have unloaded boxcars..There was usually two or three of us doing the unloading and that unloading was placing boxes on pallets for the forklift operator.
Fast forward to my forklift operator days and there was one man with a forklift to unload palletized cargo.In the rare occasional the cargo wasn't on pallets then two man was used to skid the load for me to move..
One of the first Transloading facilitys, which then were called Freight Forwarders. Starting in the 30's all the way up to the 80's, was a well known one, in NYC/CHGO was Lifschultz Fast Freight. I actually worked there part-time in the mid-50's. Box cars loaded with LTL/LCL freight, from soup to nuts, going to sometimes 20 different customers. Were unloaded, separated and loaded into trucks for delivery. Not every customer had a fork-lift truck or a pallet jack for that matter. The pallet it was put on at the transload facility, was done for their convenience. The customer, would unload the pallet and the driver would bring the pallet back or if the customer had a like pallet, the driver would take that for an exchange. Pallets cost money.......customers who receive palletized loads must pay for the pallets. How well I know that.. That is one big reason why they come up with slipsheet loading instead of pallets, much cheaper and still easier to load/unload if you have a slipsheet attachment for your forklift. You could also get a lot more freight in a box car/trailer on the floor, then in a palletized load.......that is one of the main reasons they did it. A team track was only good for maybe one or two customers, not 20. Been there, done that too!
dehusmanAirslides were being built in 1965, which means they existed in 1965, but weren't that common in the 60's. I remember seeing BCK flour cars on PC/CR in the mid 70's.
General American built the first Airslides (2600 cu. ft) in 1953, so they were well established (and larger) by the mid 1960s. Some of them had gravity discharge outlets, others had the pneumatic discharge outlets. The Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol 20 has an article about Airslides (and a superb article on AAR rules for open load bracing) and they show photos of an Airslide with gravity discharge outlets in Wabash markings (leased to Wabash; many early Airslides were leased to railroads initially) but was in dedicated service for International Milling in Detroit. This suggests that even Airslides in food related service used gravity discharge outlets. Compared to how food was handled and unloaded in boxcars, I don't think they were as worried about contamination as we who eat the food might wish!
Indeed the pneumatic discharge apparatus I have seen was for a factory that gets plastic pellets to make plastic bags.
Dave Nelson
I worked on the Missouri Pacific's Kingsville Division out of Houston between 1979 and 1984. Our trains went right by what is now Leland Baking. They unloaded flour from covered hoppers. The two curved tracks would hold a total of four cars, if I remember correctly. I don't remember what kind of hoppers were unloaded, but I think they were larger than 2-bay. We could see the flour pouring out the bottoms of the cars into a bin between the rails. At night there would be dozens of insects flying around the bright lights that illuminated the operation. I used to wonder how many insects got sucked in with the flour. All foods are allowed a certain amount of insect parts in them, so I suppose they filtered out enough insects to meet the federal requirements.