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Interchanges on the L&N Evansville Division

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Interchanges on the L&N Evansville Division
Posted by ncandstl576 on Thursday, December 27, 2018 11:04 PM

Hey all, I'm trying to figure out which roads the L&N interchanged with between Evansville and St. Louis. I don't have a copy of the NMRA reprint of the 1953 ORER (by the way, are interchanges included in that?), so I'm not entirely sure where they were. So far, I have these (going from west to east):
St. Louis (not sure, but I'm guessing there were at least a few)
Belleville: IC(?); the Southern was here too, but I don't think the L&N interchanged with them here
Nashville: MI (Missouri-Illinois RR, subsidiary of MoPac)
Ashley: IC
Woodlawn: CB&Q crossed over here, but I don't think the L&N interchanged with them
Mt. Vernon, IL: C&EI
Enfield: B&O
Carmi: NYC(?)
Mt. Vernon: IC(?)
Evansville: C&EI; IC; NYC; SOU

If anyone's wondering what this is for, I was wondering what the Evansville Division would have looked like had the NC&StL gotten control of the lines that became the L&N Evansville Division. 

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, December 28, 2018 2:04 PM

Your best bet would be to buy a L&N employee time table for the division you model..

Larry

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Posted by cuyama on Friday, December 28, 2018 2:35 PM

ncandstl576
I don't have a copy of the NMRA reprint of the 1953 ORER (by the way, are interchanges included in that?)

Yes.

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, December 28, 2018 3:19 PM

BRAKIE
Your best bet would be to buy a L&N employee time table for the division you model..

A timetable might have crossings but not interchanges.  A railroad can have a crossing with no interchange or an intechange with no crossing.

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, December 28, 2018 3:34 PM

Here are the interchanges per the 1953 ORER.  There are also a bunch of short lines and electric lines.

E. St. Louis : TRRA, A&S, MKT, MP, IC, B&O, CRIP, CB&Q, C&EI, NKP, NYC, GM&O, PRR, SOU, WAB

Belleville: IC(via the Southern), SOU

Nashville: MI

Ashley: IC

Woodlawn: CB&Q

Mt. Vernon, IL: C&EI

Enfield: B&O

Carmi: NYC (CCC&StL)

Mt. Vernon: MP

Evansville: C&EI, IC, NYC (CCC&StL), SOU(via C&EI)

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, December 28, 2018 7:59 PM

dehusman

 

 
BRAKIE
Your best bet would be to buy a L&N employee time table for the division you model..

 

A timetable might have crossings but not interchanges.  A railroad can have a crossing with no interchange or an intechange with no crossing.

 

I recall seeing some  EETs that mention interchange points while going through a stack older ETTs at a train show.

 

 

going through a stack at a train show

Larry

SSRy

Conductor

“Shut one’s eyes tight or open one’s arms wide, either way, one’s a fool.” Flemeth-the witch of the Wilds.
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Posted by ncandstl576 on Friday, December 28, 2018 10:50 PM

dehusman

Here are the interchanges per the 1953 ORER.  There are also a bunch of short lines and electric lines.

E. St. Louis : TRRA, A&S, MKT, MP, IC, B&O, CRIP, CB&Q, C&EI, NKP, NYC, GM&O, PRR, SOU, WAB

Belleville: IC(via the Southern), SOU

Nashville: MI

Ashley: IC

Woodlawn: CB&Q

Mt. Vernon, IL: C&EI

Enfield: B&O

Carmi: NYC (CCC&StL)

Mt. Vernon: MP

Evansville: C&EI, IC, NYC (CCC&StL), SOU(via C&EI)

 

Thanks so much! I knew the Illinois Central had a branch line to Mt. Vernon, Indiana, but I didn't know the MoPac was present there also.

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Posted by MARTIN STATION on Saturday, December 29, 2018 3:13 PM

  If I’m not mistaken, the NYC had two lines into Evansville, the Big Four (CCC&StL) which came from Mt. Carmel, Illinois and what I believe was the Michigan Central which connected with the C&EI at their Wadsford Yard on Evansville‘s northside.  

  In Mt.Vernon, In., the only two railroads were the L&N and the C&EI so there may have been an interchange there. The IC who’s line I grew up next too, was the old PD&E (Peoria, Decatur & Evansville). They at one time had a branch line into New Harmony, ln. and crossed with the C&EI‘s Mt.Vernon line in Poseyville but never reached into Mt.Vernon, In.

Hope this helps, Ralph 

P.S. The old L&N freight station in Mt.Vernon, In. is still in use by the Evansville Westen (a P&L company), which operates the old L&N line you are interested in.

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Posted by ncandstl576 on Sunday, December 30, 2018 9:11 PM

MARTIN STATION

  If I’m not mistaken, the NYC had two lines into Evansville, the Big Four (CCC&StL) which came from Mt. Carmel, Illinois and what I believe was the Michigan Central which connected with the C&EI at their Wadsford Yard on Evansville‘s northside.  

  In Mt.Vernon, In., the only two railroads were the L&N and the C&EI so there may have been an interchange there. The IC who’s line I grew up next too, was the old PD&E (Peoria, Decatur & Evansville). They at one time had a branch line into New Harmony, ln. and crossed with the C&EI‘s Mt.Vernon line in Poseyville but never reached into Mt.Vernon, In.

Hope this helps, Ralph 

P.S. The old L&N freight station in Mt.Vernon, In. is still in use by the Evansville Westen (a P&L company), which operates the old L&N line you are interested in.

 

This helps quite a bit, thanks! 

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Posted by Doughless on Monday, December 31, 2018 9:02 AM

Knowing a bit about Indiana railroads, memory tells me the CE&I and NYC were the two biggest interchanges.  C&EI would have taken cars directly to Chicago.

At one point, I believe the C&EI was owned by the MOPAC, so there was that affiliation.

Edit:  Okay, I see maybe the C&EI interchange was actually in Mt Vernon and not E'ville.  I think the two may have had parallel or shared rails in E'ville.

- Douglas

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Posted by ncandstl576 on Friday, January 11, 2019 6:46 AM

Doughless

Knowing a bit about Indiana railroads, memory tells me the CE&I and NYC were the two biggest interchanges.  C&EI would have taken cars directly to Chicago.

At one point, I believe the C&EI was owned by the MOPAC, so there was that affiliation.

Edit:  Okay, I see maybe the C&EI interchange was actually in Mt Vernon and not E'ville.  I think the two may have had parallel or shared rails in E'ville.

 

Thanks for the info, was this the NYC at Evansville, Carmi, or E. St. Louis? 

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, January 11, 2019 8:06 AM

Just remember that railroads can run next to each other, can cross each other and can have connection between them and still NOT have an interchange.  Unless its listed in the ORER (or other offfical list of stations), then it isn't an "interchange".

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, January 11, 2019 10:16 PM

ncandstl576

 

 

Doughless

Knowing a bit about Indiana railroads, memory tells me the CE&I and NYC were the two biggest interchanges.  C&EI would have taken cars directly to Chicago.

At one point, I believe the C&EI was owned by the MOPAC, so there was that affiliation.

Edit:  Okay, I see maybe the C&EI interchange was actually in Mt Vernon and not E'ville.  I think the two may have had parallel or shared rails in E'ville.

 

 

 

Thanks for the info, was this the NYC at Evansville, Carmi, or E. St. Louis? 

 

 

Let me backtrack.  I think the L&N and the C&EI were the two major RRs in Eville and interchanged with each other there.  It looks like the C&EI actually ran two of the L&Ns passenger trains to Chicago.  The L&N acquired the C&EI in the 60s or 70s. 

The NYC and the Southern both ran to Evansville but from branchlines, IIRC.    They probably both interchanged with the L&N at Eville, but not sure how much traffic there would be since the NYC ran NE to Indy (I think) and the L&N already had access to Indy via its interchange with the Monon at Louisville. The Southern went east west from Lville to St Louis and ran about 30 miles north of Eville but branched to Eville from Huntingburg IN to the east.

In any event, the L&N, C&EI, Southern, and NYC ran in Eville.  The history about the NYC into Eville is a bit sketchy.

- Douglas

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Posted by ncandstl576 on Sunday, January 13, 2019 3:11 AM

dehusman

Here are the interchanges per the 1953 ORER.  There are also a bunch of short lines and electric lines.

E. St. Louis : TRRA, A&S, MKT, MP, IC, B&O, CRIP, CB&Q, C&EI, NKP, NYC, GM&O, PRR, SOU, WAB

Belleville: IC(via the Southern), SOU

Nashville: MI

Ashley: IC

Woodlawn: CB&Q

Mt. Vernon, IL: C&EI

Enfield: B&O

Carmi: NYC (CCC&StL)

Mt. Vernon: MP

Evansville: C&EI, IC, NYC (CCC&StL), SOU(via C&EI)

 

Do you have any idea how the L&N interchanged with the various other roads in East St. Louis? Were there 15 separate interchanges, or one that was shared somehow?

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Posted by dehusman on Sunday, January 13, 2019 6:52 AM

Don't have any idea on the physical layout, but I would imagine that many of them were through the A&S or TRRA.  For example the modern UP and the CSXT interchange through the A&S, so I would assume the predecessors interchanged that way.

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Posted by MARTIN STATION on Sunday, January 13, 2019 1:12 PM

    The Illinois Central also ran into Evansville on what was once the PD&E which was purchased by the IC at a bankruptcy sale. That line had trackage rights into Henderson, KY on the L&N. The NYC Big Four line from Mt. Carmel, IL. started out as the Evansville, Mt. Carmel and Northern Railway but was purchased by the Big Four before it was completed. That line was furloughed at or before the start of Conrail.  

   The line at one time must have been under control of the Southern because there’s a ”no trespassing” sign still posted at a road crossing outside of Nesbit that says Southern Railway at the bottom ( at least as of last summer) and I heard that at one time CSX was also interested in it when everyone was expecting a coal boom that never happened.  Anyway what was left of the line is pretty much gone today.              Ralph               

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Posted by Doughless on Sunday, January 13, 2019 3:49 PM

MARTIN STATION

    The Illinois Central also ran into Evansville on what was once the PD&E which was purchased by the IC at a bankruptcy sale. That line had trackage rights into Henderson, KY on the L&N. The NYC Big Four line from Mt. Carmel, IL. started out as the Evansville, Mt. Carmel and Northern Railway but was purchased by the Big Four before it was completed. That line was furloughed at or before the start of Conrail.  

   The line at one time must have been under control of the Southern because there’s a ”no trespassing” sign still posted at a road crossing outside of Nesbit that says Southern Railway at the bottom ( at least as of last summer) and I heard that at one time CSX was also interested in it when everyone was expecting a coal boom that never happened.  Anyway what was left of the line is pretty much gone today.              Ralph               

 

Hey Ralph, about the NYC.  Did the NYC access Eville from Terre Haute through Worthington, IN from a prior acquisition?  I'm thinking it was an indirect route where the C&EI would have accessed Eville from TH through Princeton, IN.

Later the PennCentral abandoned the Worthington to TH part and combined the Worthington to Eville route with its acquaired PRR line from Indy to Vincennes. The PRR line ran from Indy to Worthington to Vincennes and then through Illinois, so the PC would have run from Worthington to Eville.  Now its the Indiana Southern RR. 

I'm confused as to how/when NYC ran into Eville and how much traffic there would have been.

 

- Douglas

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Posted by MARTIN STATION on Sunday, January 13, 2019 5:23 PM

Doughless,

  Here is some helpful information that may help answer some of your questions.Try these websites:

indiana.railfan.net/maps, then click on Indiana Southern RR (although they have the reporting marks as CIND which is wrong, it's actually ISRR. This was the NYC/Conrail line from Indy to Evansville.

indiana railroads.org

google, railroad map of indiana library of congress (great site), you can use your mouse to enlarge the map which really helps.

C&EI Historical Society then look under corprate history. It has the the three railroads listed that combined to make the C&EI including the Evansville and Terre Haute RR that linked them to Evansville.

And finally try indiana.railroads-railfan.net which has a great fourm. Try searching Big Four or CCC&Stl for some really good discussion on there lines in Indiana and also C&EI.

Hope this helps, Ralph

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Posted by ncandstl576 on Sunday, January 13, 2019 5:41 PM

I also highly recommend this website: mayberrytownship.net. There are several photos of depots and Sanborn fire insurance maps from the 1890s to the 1920s.

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Posted by ncandstl576 on Monday, February 04, 2019 8:32 AM

Does anyone know of any books on the L&N and Southern in Illinois and Indiana?

I can't help but find it odd how little focus there has been on these parts of the L&N and Southern systems. 

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Posted by ncandstl576 on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 6:52 PM

ncandstl576

Does anyone know of any books on the L&N and Southern in Illinois and Indiana?

I can't help but find it odd how little focus there has been on these parts of the L&N and Southern systems. 

 

Answering my own question, the only book I've found so far is Stanley A. Chagnon's "The Triangle: Busy Railroading in Southern Illinois."

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