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Name for a main line turnout to side area?

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PED
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Name for a main line turnout to side area?
Posted by PED on Saturday, October 27, 2018 6:47 PM

What would be the correct/common name for a point where a mainline turnout switched to a seperate set of tracks? The seperate tracks may lead to multiple industrial spurs or a yard or even to an area used as an interchange with a different RR.

I would normally call it a spur but I think of a spur as limited length tracks leading to an industry or specific area. Would "branch" be correct? What else?

Paul

Washita and Santa Fe Railroad
Circa 1970's in south central Oklahoma

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Posted by nealknows on Saturday, October 27, 2018 6:55 PM

Could it be a secondary track off a mainline? I guess it would depend on where it's leading to...?

Neal

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, October 27, 2018 6:57 PM

I have seen both "Controlled Siding" if it is signaled. Another term I have come across is "Secondary".

So you might have "North Controlled Siding" come off the main and into a yard or industrial trackage.

Or the "Willoughby Secondary" if the track is not a main line but a connector to two important lines.

I'll have to dig out some of the old track charts I have around here. They provide some names of tracks that can be handy for the modeler.

 Collinwood_1a by Edmund, on Flickr

Click to make bigger.

Sometimes track and building names have carried over for generations. In CSX's Collinwood Yard, former NYC, there was the P-1a shed named for the electrics used in Cleveland between 1930 and 1952. It is still called the P-1a today.

There were, until recently, the coal wharf track* and the Kuhlman Lead, named after a track that led to the Kuhlman Car Co. a manufacturer of interurban cars until 1932, were still in use.

*I see coal dock is still on the map! (left side toward top, near Training School)

 Collinwood_east by Edmund, on Flickr

Modeler's licence allows you to really be creative here.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by cuyama on Saturday, October 27, 2018 7:12 PM

Terminology strongly depends on era/locale/prototype/purpose, but "Lead" is one common name. As here:
Lakewood Industrial Lead

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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, October 27, 2018 10:34 PM

PED
What would be the correct/common name for a point where a mainline turnout switched to a seperate set of tracks?

Switch.  Maybe junction.

PED
I would normally call it a spur but I think of a spur as limited length tracks leading to an industry or specific area. Would "branch" be correct? What else?

Are you asking about the POINT where the line branches off or the BRANCH itself?

Two different things.

It depends on how its controlled and how long it is.  If it has a main track its a subdivision, secondary or a branch.  All roughly the same thing, just depends on the railroad's terminology.  If it doesn't have a main track but has more than one customer on it, or has several tracks breaking off of it, its probably a lead or an industrial lead.  If it has one industry and minimal other tracks it could be a spur.

 

Dave H. Painted side goes up.

PED
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Posted by PED on Saturday, October 27, 2018 11:36 PM

Dave...I am looking for the POINT where the secondary line diverges from the main. I think the word JUNCTION is a good fit for what I am looking for.

Thanks all.

Paul

Washita and Santa Fe Railroad
Circa 1970's in south central Oklahoma

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Posted by angelob6660 on Sunday, October 28, 2018 1:39 AM

Ed- Those rail maps are amazing source of ideas. If you're stuck on naming industries or sidings. 

Also I like looking at old rail yards that no longer exists anymore. Inspiration when modeling older railroads like the New York Central.

Modeling the G.N.O. Railway, The Diamond Route.

Amtrak America, 1971-Present.

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, October 28, 2018 4:01 PM

angelob6660
Also I like looking at old rail yards that no longer exists anymore. Inspiration when modeling older railroads like the New York Central.

I agree, Angelo. 

Actually that map shows the yard as it was in 2003 after the back shop was torn down and at least 60% of the trackage removed.

Here is a great site that has many maps and track charts if you like to explore:

http://railsandtrails.com/default.htm

You can zoom in on many of the maps and see great detail.

I use that Deja-Vu plug in but it doesn't seem to work in Chrome. IE or Edge seems to work fine. I don't know about Firefox.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by cv_acr on Sunday, October 28, 2018 8:42 PM

A spur/lead etc. is a track not a switch. I don't believe there's any specific term for that switch, but the railroad will identify each main track switch by a number and/or name of the track that it leads to such as:

"[Name] Sub[division] junction switch"

"[Customer name] Spur switch" (Add East/West/North/South in front of that if the spur is double-ended

"West (or East etc.) Siding switch [Station name]"

etc.

Often also followed or identified by the mileage (to tenth of a mile) of the switch.

"Crossover switch mileage 13.4"

PED
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Posted by PED on Monday, October 29, 2018 11:58 AM

Chris...I agree. What I needed was a stretch of track at the turnout that I could name so I could use that name as a "location" in JMRI OperationsPro. My intent was to have a mainline train stop at that location so a swtcher could meet with the train to exchange cars that the switcher would deliver to other locations on the diverging track. 

Paul

Washita and Santa Fe Railroad
Circa 1970's in south central Oklahoma

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Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 8:45 AM

PED
What I needed was a stretch of track at the turnout that I could name so I could use that name as a "location" in JMRI OperationsPro.  My intent was to have a mainline train stop at that location so a swtcher could meet with the train to exchange cars that the switcher would deliver to other locations on the diverging track.

Then aren't looking for a "point" you are looking for a track.  If you have a seperate switch engine running on it its a "lead".  The freight would set cars out on the "Anna"* lead and the "Anna" switcher will spot them, and I suppose, leave the pulls on the "Anna" lead to be picked up by another freight.

The name of the switch is irrelevant for what you are doing (but would proably be called the "Anna" switch).

* Substitute the name of your choice for Anna.

Dave H. Painted side goes up.

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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 1:18 PM

PED
My intent was to have a mainline train stop at that location so a swtcher could meet with the train to exchange cars that the switcher would deliver to other locations on the diverging track. 

I don't think that's a typical situation in the real world. More often the through train sets out cars on a track, and then the local picks them up later (and vice-versa) – as Dave suggested. On the real railroad, the scheduling precision needed to arrange that kind of active meet would be reserved for special situations or expedited loads, I believe.

I’ve seen similar situations where folks using JMRI Ops ended up with train movements and interactions that would not typically occur in real life. I don't know whether limitations within the application are the reason or if the documentation is not reflective of the real world.

Byron

PED
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Posted by PED on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:43 PM

cuyama

 

 
PED
My intent was to have a mainline train stop at that location so a swtcher could meet with the train to exchange cars that the switcher would deliver to other locations on the diverging track. 

 

I don't think that's a typical situation in the real world. More often the through train sets out cars on a track, and then the local picks them up later (and vice-versa) – as Dave suggested. On the real railroad, the scheduling precision needed to arrange that kind of active meet would be reserved for special situations or expedited loads, I believe.

I’ve seen similar situations where folks using JMRI Ops ended up with train movements and interactions that would not typically occur in real life. I don't know whether limitations within the application are the reason or if the documentation is not reflective of the real world.

Byron

 

I agree that my activity is not prototypical but it is the only way I can make the interchange in several spots. In setting up OperationsPro I have discovered that there are a number of situtions where the logic to make OperationsPro work do not match my layout. I would need a lot more space to make my track match with JMRI logic.

Side note - I am a single operator layout so stopping a train on the main does not present a risk for a train wreck.

Paul

Washita and Santa Fe Railroad
Circa 1970's in south central Oklahoma

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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:57 PM

PED
In setting up OperationsPro I have discovered that there are a number of situtions where the logic to make OperationsPro work do not match my layout. I would need a lot more space to make my track match with JMRI logic.

Just a thought -- then maybe it's not the best choice for operating your layout. But certainly your call.

Good luck with your layout.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 6:06 PM

PED
My intent was to have a mainline train stop at that location so a swtcher could meet with the train to exchange cars that the switcher would deliver to other locations on the diverging track.

Sounds more like something a short line would do..In fact there is several videos on you tube showing that type of interchange operation.

Larry

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Posted by gregc on Friday, November 09, 2018 5:21 AM

is this google maps link and example of what is being discussed?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Somerset,+Franklin+Township,+NJ+08873/@40.478897,-74.4653824,19z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c3c00e3f9bc429:0x9b9c65b0422e9ad!8m2!3d40.497604!4d-74.4884868?hl=en

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

PED
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Posted by PED on Friday, November 09, 2018 8:39 AM

Greg,

I see elements in that google map that represent what I am working on.  Has a mainline with another track that branches off via some sidings. Sidings is what I decided to call these locations on my layout. In one case, the mainline is ATSF track and the diverging track is a lead to the Frisco. I needed a place to exchange cars between the ATSF and the Frisco. I created a siding for that task thus avoidind any mainline blockage then I setup the siding as a C/I (Classification/Interchange) track in JMRI. That allowed me to drop and pick up cars as needed on the siding without any changes to their load status in JMRI.

Paul

Washita and Santa Fe Railroad
Circa 1970's in south central Oklahoma

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