This question stems from a photo by Fred Eidenbenz (pg. 130/plate 98) in Railroad Vision-Steam Era Images from the Trains Magazine Archive, a terrific collection published in 2015; maybe someone else in this forum has a copy of this book.
It's an elevated view of a section of NYC's engine terminal at Harmon, NY taken sometime in the '20s. The photographer's main interest in this scene seems to have been the subject shovel lifting ash from the pit it's straddling and dumping it into a hopper on the adjacent track. The shovel may not be self-propelled, but if it isn't, what is the car/equipment directly behind it? There's steam from a nearby locomotive turbogenerator that partially obscures that car/equipment so it's difficult to identify what it is. From what I can see it doesn't look like a locomotive....the rear portion has a flat top [so no tender or coal bunker (as on a tank engine)] and I don't see a boiler shape on the front end.
I have a not-yet-built Vintage Vehicles kit for an HO model of an Erie B-2 steam shovel I'd like to modify by replacing the track pads with a frame mounted on one or two 4-wheel trucks. I might be able to model a non-operating self-propel mechanism for the truck(s), or, if someone can identify the equipment behind the shovel in the photo, I might model that....if it's some sort of powered equipment to push/pull the shovel.
Sorry, I'd love to see a pic to know what you are talking about. Is there anyway you can scan a pic. As a kid my father called all telephone poles telegraph poles and cranes were steam shoves. Not sure if they were still steam shovels in the mid 50's but they all had "names", not manufacturers name but names, like Daisy.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I shot a photo of the photo with a digital camera and imported it to iPhoto. I tried dragging it to this post, but it's so large that there's a lot of blur in the image. I'll try a scan if I can get the equipment to work (!).
Erie shovels were self contained. The verticle boiler is in the unit itself. Steam shovels started out on rails. So putting it on era specific trucks is a real option. Not many B2 had this done as it is a small shovel more for contractors. The equipment you speak is mor likely to lift coal into the bunkers or some other applications. It has been a while since i have seen the pic of which you speak so i am going off memory
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
There is s Sticky thread on how to post pictures. You can't drag them or paste them, they have to be hosted on the internet somewhere, like Imgur, Flickr
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/249194.aspx
Thanks, BigDaddy. I'll pursue that, but first the thought occurred to me that I might need publication permission so I'm checking that now.
Images of rail mounted steam shovels:
https://www.google.com/search?q=rail+mounted+steam+shovel&client=firefox-b-1-ab&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj116fPpszcAhWqLcAKHYLVB7EQsAR6BAgGEAE&biw=1344&bih=698
From what I've gathered so far, it looks like getting, or trying to get publication permission is going to require publishing an ad (not sure where) to find the photographer's heir(s). Evidently that was tried once for use in Railroad Vision to no avail. I realize that publication went ahead anyway, but since I would be another user of the photo if I put it on Flickr or Imgur, I would be obliged to publish my own ad to try to find the photographer's heir(s).
I don't think that a casual curiosity like this justifies the expense of an ad. I'll just wait to see if someone else with a copy of Railroad Vision turns up.
This picture is in a Trains Magazine archive? Why don't you ask someone at Trains if it is okay to scan a copy of the picture to post here to ask your question?
And I don't think you are "publishing" anything. Publishing to me implies some intent to use the picture in something you are using to make money, which does not seem to be your intent.
I think it would be adequate to make a note with your posted picture saying that the photo was taken by (insert name here) and was found on page (whatever) of the Trains Magazine archive.
But you can ask someone at Trains if that would be okay if you have a concern.
I have the book and have looked closely at the photo in question and it is just very unclear what it is that is coupled to the railroad shovel. The shovel itself seems to be 2 axle. There are some odd diagonal mechanical looking things on the car it is coupled to and a roof or deck that is very tall. It's own fuel/water supply with some kind of exterior stoker to bring the coal to the shovel itself?
I looked in my 1939 Railway Maintenance Cyclopedia and while it has a nice variety of pics of self propelled "locomotive cranes" in this kind of service it is of course mostly devoted to what was new in 1939, not what was used on the NYC two decades earlier. Perhaps an earlier edition of that Cyclopedia would be helpful. Or not.
Dave Nelson
According to a Kalmbach staff member I've contacted, Kalmbach (the publisher of "Trains") administers copyright matters for use of photos in the "Trains" archive, and by extension, in the Railroad Vision book. Copyright laws are very comprehensive, from what I've read about them, so use of copyrighted material has to be preceded by obtaining written permission from the owner of the material. Just because Kalmbach advertised to find the photographer's heir(s) and ask for use permission doesn't relieve me from the same requirement. The fines for violation of these laws can be pretty stiff.
So, in order to answer my question about Fred Eidenbenz's photo (short of an answer from someone who can view the already-published photo in Railroad Vision), I'd have to "use" it by scanning it, or otherwise copying it from the book, then placing it on a public platform so that someone might see it who can answer my question.
Kalmbach has admitted, I believe, that they don't own the copyright to the photo. So their interest is moot.
Seems to me, "fair use" could easily apply:
It is for research purposes. The "publisher" makes no profit. The possible profits to the copyright holder are vanishingly small.
Unless the copyright to the photo is registered, all you can be sued for is your profits from the useage. And there are none.
Ed
Rough and Tumble in Kinzers Pa have an operating steam shovel. Their Threshermen's Reunion is August 15-18.
The Shovel might be a Marion model 40 . As for the weird car behind it. Perhaps some sort of steam pressure tank. It was after all working in the city and back then they frowned on smoky,dusty & dirty steam locomotives.
Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb
Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.
Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.