Hello all... I am suffering from a combination of lack of knowledge and lack of color photographs.
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Were many steel boxcars in the 1950s painted black? I am sure the vast majority were reddish brown, with some colorful schemes beginning to appear, but what about black?
Black and gray have always been common colors for industrial equipment. So I can't think of an obvious reason why some boxcars weren't black, but I never seem to see models of black 40' boxcars except for the SP Overnighters.
Thanks for the help and information.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
The Southern Pacific had black boxcars dedicated to overnight service between Los Angeles and San Francisco
Pictures I've seen of the pre-war cars were very plain. The service started in 1935 and ended with the beginning of WW2. The cars were rebuilt from single sheathed wood boxcars. The wood sheathing was replaced by steel. According to John Signor a colorful winged logo was designed for the service, but never applied to the cars. There is a picture of the cars and also of the logo in his SP Coast Line book.
The post war black cars date from 1946, when the service was resumed. Later the cars were painted silver. I could not find a date for the silver cars, but probably about the same time as ts the Overnight TOFC trains were intoduced. .
SP subdiduary Northwestern Pacific may have had black boxcars. Have not found any photos, but model companies have some in black.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
SeeYou190Black and gray have always been common colors for industrial equipment. So I can't think of an obvious reason why some boxcars weren't black...
One reason may be that black-painted cars would absorb all of the colors of the spectrum and tend to have a greater interior temperature than lighter-painted cars. I don't know what the temperature differentiation between a black and oxide red boxcar would be but I do think it would be less. That might affect what type or limit the types of commodities one could reasonably transport in a darker-colored boxcar - particularly if they are being shipped from or shipped to warmer climates in the summer months - e.g. the southeast and southwest US.
I'm just thinking out loud so someone can correct me if I'm way off base...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Most boxcars up to about 1955-56 were boxcar red or oxide red with some exceptions. The railroads made a definite change around those years to more colorful equipment and different lettering schemes. The Western Maryland went to Speed Style lettering on freight cars and diesels. The Reading also adopted Speed Style then too at least on hoppers and other freight cars.
Many "standard" paint jobs were changed or modified then too. B&O diesels traded their gray paint for blue. Many railroads completely changed color schemes and others modified what they had and some simplified them.
The only black cars I can remember were C&O boxcars beside those already mentioned above and I don't think the C&O cars came until about 1960.
oldline1
The SOO Line had some steel box cars built in the 40's that were black, and I think Central of Georgia had black box cars, but they also had a large off white "football" shaped thing, too, so the whole car wasn't black.
Just kicking around in Google images, looks like the Wabash had some, and looks like the Chicago and Easttern Ill. had some.
Kinda hard to tell, as most of the pictures are in black and white.
Mike.
My You Tube
mbinsewiKinda hard to tell, as most of the pictures are in black and white.
Yeah, that is what I am running into also.
I am building a freight car fleet of 150-200 cars. In that mix it does not sound like 2-3 black boxcars would be bad. I already have one.
Tank cars, flat cars, and hopper cars were all commonly painted black. I don't see why a black boxcar every now and then would ruin the scene.
90% of the boxcar fleet is reddish brown, with just a few colorful schemes appearing on the rails.
What do you think, will this look OK?
Boxcars were originally painted "boxcar red" because it was a cheap, long-lasting paint made from natural clay that contained iron-oxide, giving the paint a rusty red hue. When artificial paint came along, railroads continued to use the same color, probably as much out of habit as anything.
Not sure if this was a factor, but for many steam-era railroads, cars were sort of "color coded". Typical would be something like:
Flatcars/Boxcars: Boxcar Red
Reefers: Yellow sides; Boxcar Red roof/ends
Open Hoppers/Gondolas: Black
Covered Hoppers: Gray
Cabooses: Body, bright red; roof, black.
I can attest in the summer here in the deep south anything black or dark colored gets red hot it's curious why the overnight cars would be black I would think they'd be a lighter color for visibility reasons, I believe NW had black cars don't quote me though, Central of Georgia cars were black with a silver football? I have a model that's purple yes purple, with a silver football?
That SP overnight logo with the wings is pretty stylin'
NWP (the prototype not my version) had oxide red, grayish moss green, and a blackish green overnight boxcars, that's from color photos/models I found through a Google search...
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Some of the McGinnis scheme boxcars on the NH and B&M were black.
Also some L&NE.
Ed
Here are a few Black Boxcars I have researched and painted:
[
Previous posted was correct, 1960 Repaint.
1964 Boxcar
New Have Scheme from the mid to late 1950's.
Then in the 70's Came the N&W and SCL with a lot of black boxcars.
A partial Blue and Black car:
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
SeeYou190What do you think, will this look OK? .
I would say, judging by the replies you've gotten since you asked this, it would be perfectly fine.
IIRC, the Georgia Railroad and I think the A&WP had some boxcars that were silver with black ends, roofs, and the right-most panel on either side, where the ladders were. Not exactly what you were asking about, I guess.
NHTX It is good to see you are interested in a prototypical color mix for your boxcar fleet.
Yes, I am trying very hard to get the "mixture" of equipment believable. Not just colors, but the ratio of PS-1 boxcars to USRA single sheathed cars still in service. Covered hoppers and the proper tank cars.
Since I am freelancing everything, the actual railroads that had black boxcars does not matter, just as to whether or not they actually existed.
I know I have too many PS-1's, but that is because the Kadee model is just so darned good. I have too few open top hoppers, but I don't like them all that much. I am assuming my customer base does not require much coal or gravel.
Thanks! I appreciate all the help.
You know, I am starting to come to the conclusion that I need every Morning Sun freight car color book they have ever published. But even if I could afford (and find!) them all, where would I put them?
Dave Nelson
This is a picture of one of the black boxcars.
To my eye, it looks OK for the 1950s. Certainly not a common color scheme, but I don't think it looks out of place or will ruin the scene.
I also went with red roof and ends. Not bright red, but a lighter shade of mineral red. I made the color by adding just a touch of brown to Model Master British Crimson.
I really like the way this car turned out.
What are your thoughts?
I like it. Looks good, and looks plausible.
Ray DunakinI like it. Looks good, and looks plausible.
Thanks for responding Ray. I really appreciate the input.
"Plausible" is exactly what I am going for.
A lot of railroads painted their boxcars boxcar red, but the roof and ends were often black. Originally, the black was something called black roof cement, which helped to seal out water, but with the development of better paints (and better roofs), many roads changed to black paint.
A few examples, based on prototype information...
I liked the look enough to make it a standard for my home road boxcars...
Wayne
OK, please help me understand this because it does not make sense to me. If black paint was available, why weren't boxcars painted black?
I mean tank cars, hopper cars, and gondola cars were black, why not boxcars?
Someone said it was because the roof would absorb heat on a black boxcar, but then others say some red boxcars had black roofs, so that does not make any sense.
What is the explanation?
Thank you for putting up with a noob question.
Wood boxcars began being painted oxide red in the 19th century, because there was a cheap, durable paint available made from iron oxide. When steel cars came along, the railroads continued to paint the new boxcars the same colors as the old ones.
In the steam era, steam engines were black, boxcars were dark red, cabooses were bright red, reefer sides were yellow or orange, passenger cars were Pullman green. Some boxcars had their roofs (and sometimes ends) treated with a waterproofing agent that was black. It wasn't until the diesel era that all railroads had individual paint schemes, usually based on paint schemes developed for their new diesel engines or streamlined passenger cars.
I expect hopper cars were painted black because they hauled mostly coal (color = black).
I expect tank cars were painted black because they hauled mostly oil (color = black).
There were plenty of gondolas painted oxide red, perhaps the majority.
I expect reefers were painted orange or yellow to express their high value, and also as a reminder of their need for ice. And special handling.
And also: railroads have always been conservative traditional outfits. Probably something to do with the need to keep the trains on the tracks. Anyway, perhaps they chose a color because it's the one "we" always use.
And then the fifties came along.
Boxcar Red paint was the cheapest paint available, made from Red Clay. When the Wabash needed paint they would get Barn #10 Paint for their boxcars. Also their were more boxcars than the total of all the other cars on most railroads.
Not all hoppers were painted black, the Pennsy had 30,000 hoppers and they were all painted red until the 1960's.
The black paint used on car roofs and ends were an asphaltum type of paint which sealed the roofs and ends and prevented water from entering the car which could destroy the load and thereby cost the railroads more than painting the roof with the black asphaltum paint.
Lehigh & New England had black boxcars.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Put as many black cars on your road as you want. If someone sees them and says they don't belong, ask them to prove it.
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
PED Put as many black cars on your road as you want. If someone sees them and says they don't belong, ask them to prove it.
Paul,
I don't think Kevin was asking for permission to have lots of black-painted cars. I think he was more interested in what the prototype did, so as to inform his decisions.
7j43kI don't think Kevin was asking for permission to have lots of black-painted cars. I think he was more interested in what the prototype did, so as to inform his decisions.
Wow, an old thread of mine came back!
Ed is correct, I want my railroad to look plausible, but just a little "off" when it is completed. I do not want it to look silly.
I want non-railroaders to be able to see it, know they are looking at a fictional toy, but at the same time also know that they are looking at a North American railroad in 1954.
Even though I do not model any prototype at all, I am intersted in an overview of what prototypes did so that the STRATTON & GILLETTE does not look funny when all is said and done.
John Allen accomplished what I want. The GORRE & DAPHETID was completely his own creation, but to an outside observer it sure looked like a railroad.
EDIT: I just saw who brought the thread back, and it is my old friend Tomas from Tampa. He is at the HMGS convention this weekend in Orlando and must have gotten board between games. I guess he is lurking on me.