this is a basic question about picking up up and dropping off a car at an industry.
My understanding is that on the prototype, disconnecting part of a train requires setting the brakes and picking up a car requires releasing the brake and pumping up the brake line. Therefore, there's a desire to minimize any connect/disconnects.
i see a difference in picking up a car if the caboose is at the end of the train versus behind the tender.
if the caboose it at the end of the train, the caboose must be disconnected from the train on the mainline before picking up a car on an industry spur. This is unnecessary if the caboose is behind the tender.
i've seen a picture of a Reading coal train with the caboose behind the tender.
when might a caboose be located behind a tender?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
In the old days, the rear flagman had to be available to protect the rear of the train. There might be some flexibility in the positioning of the caboose in specific circumstances, and it might be reasonable to run the train with a couple cars behind the caboose; but in general, the caboose will be at or very near the rear. In any case, the rear car must carry markers whether it is the caboose or not. In some cases, trains carried a second caboose or a rider car directly behind the locomotive to accommodate the head end brakeman. This was particularly seen in Indiana where State law required it in certain circumstances. I don't know the specific provisions of that law.
Tom
gregcwhen might a caboose be located behind a tender?
While its switching or making a short run, or it it has two cabooses.
In the time frame the Reading existed, if a train stopped on the main track the train had to send a flagman back immediately to protect the rear end of the train. If the caboose is nect to the engine, it can't do that.
If the train goes through a switch in the reverse position, the rear brakeman had to get off and line the switch for the normal position. The brakeman can't do that if he is next to the engine.
The train crew is required to inspect the track behind it for evidence of dragging equipment and to watch the rear portion of the train for sticking brakes, hot boxes, etc. The rear end crew can't do that if they are next to the engine.
The rear of the train has to display markers so the crew would have to put a red flag or light back there.
If they pick up a car the crew will have to know they have the correct air pressure on the last car. The caboose has a brake pressure gauge in it. They would have to carry a brake pressure gauge with an angle cock attachment with them to properly perform a brake test.
Pumping up the air isn't a big deal, trains do it all the time. If they pick up a car they have to do an air test on it anyway.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Remember, it is not necessary to release the air from the whole train in order to uncouple a car. If a car is dropped on a trailing point spur, the common practice is to close the angle cock between the last car and caboose and drop the caboose on the mainline. This sets the air on the caboose only, but leaves the air intact on the rest of the train. Then the angle cock is closed between the setout car and the one next to it, and the setout car is placed. Again, this sets the brake on the setout car and not the rest of the train. The handbrake is applied to the setout car to prevent the brakes from releasing due to air leakage. The train is reassembled, and the air line only has to be recharged enough to allow for the added caboose.
I used to watch the Erie-Lackawanna "peddeler" freight run on the Cleveland-Youngstown line.
All the above information is excellent and I might add that the operation of these trains were a day-to-day occurrence and every crew would know what the "routine" was for each job. This includes crew members dropping off as the head end passes the industry switch, one brakeman might unlock and open the gate while another is at the switch to be ready for the back-up move.
It was all like a game of chess and every player knew his position. Even to the placing of the flag in the coupler of the last car as Tom and Dave mentioned, was done while the switch was being thrown and the gates re-locked. Poetry-in-motion.
So, in observing the Erie Peddeler there was a spot where three industries were switched that were pretty close together. Every move takes time and if any number of moves can be consolidated, all the better.
These three industries required set-outs of empty cars and pick-ups of the loads. When they were done at this location the caboose wound up mid-train and ran there for about five miles until such time as a passing siding was handy so the caboose could be "run-around".
This scenario and others like it are seldom witnessed anymore as the railroads "trimmed" these switching jobs and many of the small industries requiring weekly, or daily car deliveries have since been closed. The elimination of cabooses, reduction of crews and more reliance on radio and even remote-controlled locomotives has pretty much made the Peddeler Freight a piece of history.
There are switching jobs today that have some of the crew riding in automobiles to meet the train, perform the switching and drive on to the next industry.
Good Luck, Ed
gmpullman ...has pretty much made the Peddeler Freight a piece of history.
...has pretty much made the Peddeler Freight a piece of history.
I surely don't know what happens on railroads all over the country. But I am somewhat familiar with operations along the BNSF tracks along the Columbia River. When I can find the time (and money), I stay along the tracks and trainwatch for several days straight.
There surely are plenty of "through" trains: coal, oil/alcohol, intermodal....
But there's also what looks like a peddlar.
It's usually pulled by a two-unit back-to-back set. Maybe a GP38-2 and a de-rated GP50. It takes care of business along the line. Like dropping a string of empties on a siding right in front of my photo position. ON MY FIRST DAY! I brought my new radio last time, and listened to them talking about making a drop at a lumber industry. I even saw it with a caboose once.
I believe it came through at least once a day--both directions.
7j43kBut there's also what looks like a peddlar.
Sure, they're still around, even with cabooses that are likely called "shoving platforms" today. I see NS switching many of the industries between Cleveland and Painesville, Ohio. Lincoln Electric, Lubrizol and a few plastics outfits. I believe it is a three times-a-week "Turn". That's why I say "pretty much" in my reply.
Still, even in the 1970s when I was doing a lot of my snooping around, there were several crews a day, some working out of smaller yards that are long-gone, some of these "jobs" would switch one specific industry. Others spent one whole trick working out one day and back the next.
Sure, they can still be seen but their numbers have made a bit of a decline in recent years.
Happy Modeling,
Ed
ACY TomRemember, it is not necessary to release the air from the whole train in order to uncouple a car. If a car is dropped on a trailing point spur, the common practice is to close the angle cock between the last car and caboose and drop the caboose on the mainline.
Remembering of course that most locals are built in station order with the cars for the first station closest to the engines and the cars for the furthest station next to the caboose.
At the first station they would leave the entire train on the main, including the caboose, leave the angle cock open on the rear of the train, and set out the the cars for that station, pick up the cars at that station and put them on the head end.
At the next station they would leave the rear of the train on the main, bust the air on the rear of the train and take the pickups plus the cars for that station.
And so forth.
Only at the last station they worked would they just leave the caboose on the main.
Yes, I've seen it done both ways: drop rear cars first, or drop front cars first. The point is that it isn't always necessary to set the air on the entire cut. In any case, most peddlers were fairly short, so it's not the same as restoring the air on a 100 car drag.
I've never heard the term "peddler freight". I thought they were all called "locals".
CN runs a daily from Duplainville, WI to Fox Lake IL., and back, about 60 miles. Uses an ex IC GP40.
Mike.
My You Tube
A lot of PRR conductors I worked with placed the pickups behind the cabin and used a red flag for a marker.
Why you may wonder? That was to make the runaround move easy for the return trip to the yard. All we had to do is run the engine around the train without the need to switch the cabin.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I've heard lots of terms used: Local, Peddler, Patrol. It's something like the many names for that little red car at the rear (which wasn't always little, wasn't always red, and wasn't always at the rear).
Thank You!