I have a brass Alco Models B-11L 0-6-0 switcher that I would also like to find out the correct whistle for. If anyone can shed any light on the topic, I will relay the information to them.
Thanks for the help...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I had luck finding a correct diesel horn by checking with the railroads historical society. Later I found some information on the horn by Googling the road and loco type.
Good luck,
Richard
Tom,
I'll start the ball rolling with "I haven't a clue". Let's continue:
I believe the big dividing line on whistles is whether they're single chime or multi-chime. The common multi's seem to be 3 and 5 chime.
If you can get a good picture of the subject whistle, sometimes you can tell by the shape what it is/was. The multi-chime whistles TEND to have a complex physical shape:
They also TEND to have more than one opening (I'm sure there's an official name) around the bottom edge. I think.
A single chime would commonly have a single simple tube and one "opening".
All the above is based on a bit of wandering online. Ya gotta start somewhere.
If you can't find a photo for your particular engine, you might puzzle the matter out by studying the whistles on all the other locomotives on your line. There tended to be a commonality.
One could also visit the appropriate Yahoo group.
Ed
Thanks, Ed. Even without looking at photos I would have guessed single-chime. However, I got onto Fallen Flags website and found the following pics of the type of brass NYC 0-6-0 switcher I have:
Unfortunately, there isn't a close-up of the whistle on the three above photos. Comparing the three though to your photo, it looks like it's the single-type and they are all identical.
I've visited and posted the question to two separate NYCSHS Yahoo! Group sites and neither one has given a response so far.
The upper two look like multi-chime to me, for sure. Note the little notch taken out of the upper right corner of the first one. The middle one looks to have notches out of both upper corners--maybe then a 5 chime.
The bottom one isn't as simple as it looks. While it doesn't have any obvious multi-chime "notches", I do see that the upper tube isn't visually centered over the lower valve. That "complexity" hints to me also a multi-chime.
Ed,
What about the lever being consistent in the group of three photos but reversed/mirrored in your photo? Or, did RRs use different lever "types" and/or mount them in different orientations? I'm guessing that they could and did mount them however they desired.
I don't see much difference in lever location on the whistles. It's likely to be centered, since the valve is likely centered too. But the take-off angle for the lever can be just about anything, depending on how they tighten the whistle body when they install it. It probably is attached with a pipe taper thread, which easily allows that kind of positioning. You've just gotta "aim" it towards the hole in the cab wall where the whistle cord goes through.
Thinkin' on it, it's interesting that whistles are commonly placed on the LEFT side of the steam dome, which is not the engineer's side. I'm guessing to lessen the exhaust steam obstructing his vision.
Got to thinkin' last night as I fell asleep:
The SIZE of the whistle makes a difference. The longer the tube, the deeper the sound. Looking at the photos above, the whistles look pretty small. If I were going through a whistle sound catalog, I'd go for a fairly high frequency multi-chime, 3 or 5, depending. NOT a big, giant sound. And not a "little peep", as shows up frequently in English whistles.
Somehow, I recall the Pennsy as known for single pitch whistles. FWIW.
Back in the olden days, (the late '50's), strange and weird people were recording the sounds of steam locomotives, and then selling them on round plastic discs. With the proper low tech equipment, you could play the recordings. It was surprisingly common. FINDING them, now, is perhaps NOT common. It would not be impossible that someone has recorded the sounds of locomotives of interest.
For example, I have an Audio Fidelity railroad recording. As I recall, it was recorded on the Illinois Central. Being more of an audiophile's recording, as opposed to a railfan's, details are sparse. The sound quality is fantastic.
Ya never know.........
7j43kFINDING them, now, is perhaps NOT common. It would not be impossible that someone has recorded the sounds of locomotives of interest.
I downloaded this album from Smithsonian Folkways. A Smithsonian Magazine subscriber can even enjoy a discount on the already reasonable $6.98 download cost.
Recorded in 1950 on the New York Central in Peekskill, NY.
https://folkways.si.edu/rail-dynamics/sounds/album/smithsonian
https://folkways-media.si.edu/liner_notes/cook/COOK01270.pdf
This is a worthwhile recording to have. Folkways has several other railroad-related recordings available for download or, for a little more cost, mailed to you on a CD.
https://folkways.si.edu/search?query=railroad+sounds
Regards, ed
I found the following conversation on this webpage this morning:
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=142020
So, it looks like the Nathan 5-chime was the "standard" for many of the NYC steam. I was also able to capture a rough photo from a Herron video I had on late ('56/'57) steam of the NYC:
There's always exceptions, but generally single-chime "peanut" whistles were used on older (19th c.) engines and smaller engines like logging engines.
It can be very difficult with whistles to look at one and determine how it sounded based on appearance alone. With airhorns, you had standardized models so that if two different railroads used a certain model of say Nathan 3-chime, they would probably sound exactly the same. My impression is steam whistles were more unique, and - partly because of the era they were used in - more likely to be modified by the shop forces or the crew (back in the days of an engineer having an assigned engine.)
Probably the best bet would be to rely more on sound...listen to all the sound recordings you can of NYC steam, and use the whistle available in the decoder you're using that sounds the closest.
I totally agree, Stix. I was hoping to "hear" a 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 switcher whistle when I was perusing through the two NYC videos I was watching this morning. Heard plenty of Hudson, Mohawks, and Mikes but - unfortunaely - no steam switchers.
I have a couple of other videos of NYC steam. I'll see if they can maybe yield something to the conversation.
I received the following response from Jim; the fella I was trying to find out the above information for:
"Interestingly enough I had planned to post to you today with similar information. Thanks to Tom Gerbracht of the Society for his help! Tom has a drawing of the 6-chime whistle used on L-4's, J's, and Niagara's. The drawing has a notation that "All others used a 5 bell". There is also reference to the possibility of USRA engines being delivered with a "USRA Standard" whistle, whatever that might be. Not sure that would effect you but I'm modeling a USRA 0-6-0. If you have the Society's Headlight DVD or old printed issues, check Page 12 of the Q2 1992 Headlight. The actual music notes of the 5 and 6 chime whistles are listed in answer to a Tack Board question. It would be kind of fun to see if any of the current DCC sound files actually use those notes for a Nathan whistle. Tom Gerbracht also pointed out that steam whistle tones and over tones would be affected by boiler pressure, humidity, and whether the whistle was activated with saturated or super-heated steam." [underscore mine]
Having a musical background, the second paragraph I especially find fascinating.
Anyhow, I wanted to pass along the above information for anyone interested. Thanks for all the input.
While, I admit, not a B-11l but a B-10s.
B&A_B_10s by Edmund, on Flickr
B&A_B10s_2 by Edmund, on Flickr
...still a good view of a B class whistle.
On the other hand, this view of a CR&I B-61c looks like it may have a three-chime whistle of a tubular shape.
CR&I_197 by Edmund, on Flickr
I doubt any of this will help you but I'm tossing in any scraps of information I may have, FWIW.
Good stuff, Ed - Thanks for posting it! The middle close-up definitely shows the multi-chime whistle.
As Stix pointed out, I'm sure there were exceptions - albeit temporary or long-term - to the "norm". It's still fascinating, nonetheless.