I thought I might have asked this here before but I cannot seem to locate it using the Search the Community feature. Is there any physical difference in the shells between an FM H10-44 and an H12-44?
I have a pair of undecorated Proto 2000 H10-44s that I'd like to eventully paint & detail for the Boston & Albany (B&A). The B&A H12-44s were unique in that they were painted with the lightening stripe scheme; a very unusual paint scheme for a NYC switcher:
I know there were internal differences between the two - e.g. the H12-44s had increased HP. All I'm interested in are the external differences, if any.
Thanks for any help you might be able to offer.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
From info from my Diesel Spotter's Guide, those above pictured switchers are early H-12-44's; and they look the same as H-10-44's.
Ed
That's the conclusion I came to, Ed...but thought I'd ask anyhow - just in case I missed something.
Like was mentioned, the early H12-44's looked like the H10-44's. On later runs of the H12-44, pretty much the entire loco was changed. The wheelbase was shorter, the side sill was thicker, no cab overhang, etc.
Just compare your loco to the pictures and go from there.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
I think Tom was asking because of the possibility he missed something when he did that.
It's nice to not find you missed something halfway through a project that you could have asked yer buddies about way at the beginning.
I was thinking that very thing a few weeks ago. I don't know about other railroads but according to the book ( I don't remember the exact title) But it has every diesel type of diesel that the NYC ever had. It does have the wheelbase of the H12-44 to be longer than the H-10 44, and I think its 3 feet longer. So that is quite a difference. I have some of each, and if they are side by side it is obvious. If they are not togeather I can only tell by the number of the locomotive.
Paul
Dayton and Mad River railroad
Hi Paul,
I did a little digging after you gave your answer. The following The Diesel Shop link gives the total length of an FM H10-44 switcher as 48'-10", which I'm assume is measured "between coupler pulling faces":
https://www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20FM%20H10-44.HTML
The following link from the NYCSHS website shows a diagram of a Class DES-17 H12-44 switcher on pg. 11 of this document:
https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/dieselroster2.pdf
It's total length is also listed as 48'-10". The CTC distance between bolsters is listed as 25'-6", which is identical to the H10-44 listed in the first link above. So, it appears that the NYC H10- and H12-44s are fairly identical in critical dimensions.
I guessing the book you maybe thinking of is New York Central System Diesel Locomotives by William D. Edson. I have a copy of that one (which I love) but it's currently boxed up somewhere and not excessible.
Be VERY wary of dimensions found on The Diesel Shop. I have found a lot of errors.
On the other hand, "official" railroad diagrams are probably the most reliable of all. Consider that workers depended on those dimensions, and used them frequently in the real world. There WAS (and IS) a reason those documents existed, after all.
I am lucky enough to have two reproduction diagram books for the Great Northern from 1952. EXTREMELY useful. And it's not just dimensions: things like whether and where diesel F's had drawbars instead of couplers, for example.
7j43kOn the other hand, "official" railroad diagrams are probably the most reliable of all.
Good Call!
Something for you to ruminate over, Tom.
NYC_DES_14-17_260 by Edmund, on Flickr
NYC_DES_14-17_261 by Edmund, on Flickr
NYC_DES_14-17_262 by Edmund, on Flickr
NYC_DES_14-17_263 by Edmund, on Flickr
NYC_DES_14-17_264 by Edmund, on Flickr
NYC_DES_14-17_265 by Edmund, on Flickr
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the horsepower increase was attributed to a bigger generator (820 KW vs. 690) and perhaps improvements in the traction motors.
Externally, it looks like the 10 built for the B&A in Dec. '51 and Jan. '51would have had the ATS induction shoe on the 3rd axle (R) and the 4th axle (L).
Hope that helps—
Good Luck, Ed
Thanks, Ed, for the NYC diagrams to compare. Again, it looks like the overall external dimensons between the NYC DES-14 and DES-17s were identical.
That said, how much would the ATS induction shoe be noticeable on an HO-scale H12-44? Is that something that could be easily added to the 3rd and 4th axles of the rear truck? Looks like there is a detailed part for one and can be found here.
tstageThat said, how much would the ATS induction shoe be noticeable on an HO-scale H12-44?
Well, I guess it boils down to just how many rivets do you want to count
NYC_ATS by Edmund, on Flickr
GRS Type 2 Engine Receiver.
I have a few brass models and some of the later Walthers and BLI locomotives have them. I imagine trying to add one (or two if the locomotive is equipped with bi-directional ATS as the DES-17a were) would be challenging due to the truck sideframe being made of our favorite "Slippery Engineering Plastic" which resists all attempts of glue adhesion.
Theres a photo of a pair of the H12-44s at the Alco Plant on page 47 of the Edson/Vail?Smith NYC Diesel book. Don't 'ya know, there was a foot of snow on the ground when the photo was taken and it obscures some of the truck details!
I think it is one of those "optional" details that might be more trouble than it's worth.
The NYC Headlight Q4, 2002 has a pretty thorough article on the NYC application.
Have Fun! Ed
Thanks, Ed!
Your photo must show the locomotives in the late '50s or early '60s Tom. The builder's photo shows both the speedometer cable and the ATS shoe (partially obscured by snow).
NYC_ATS2 by Edmund, on Flickr
The system was expensive to maintain and I doubt the switchers saw much road running time so NYC probably harvested the parts for use on other road locomotives as replacements became necessary.
Cheers! Ed