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PS-1 vs 1937 AAR Boxcar

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PS-1 vs 1937 AAR Boxcar
Posted by Guy Papillon on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:50 PM

For some time now I have been looking for an undecorated kit of the 1933 AAR 40' Boxcar or Modified 40' AAR Boxcar to make a transition era CNR boxcar but I couldn't find any suitable kit. Although, today I found a source for an Intermountain Trains PS-1 40' Boxcar kit.

Is the PS-1 boxcar similar enough to the 1933 40' AAR Boxcar to make a convincing CNR model?

The difference with ladders is not important as I can use Tichy Train Group specially designed ladders for Canadian cars.

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:22 PM

Guy Papillon
For some time now I have been looking for an undecorated kit of the 1933 AAR 40' Boxcar or Modified 40' AAR Boxcar to make a transition era CNR boxcar but I couldn't find any suitable kit. Although, today I found a source for an Intermountain Trains PS-1 40' Boxcar kit. Is the PS-1 boxcar similar enough to the 1933 40' AAR Boxcar to make a convincing CNR model?...

Are you perhaps thinking of the 1932 ARA car?  This was a fairly low car, and all versions had interior heights of less than 10'.  The CPR was the only Canadian buyer of these cars, and others included the Chicago Great Western, Erie, Missouri Pacific and the Seaboard Air Line.  These cars, while not built in great numbers, did influence the design of subsequent AAR cars, and in particular, the 1937 AAR design.
The CNR was the largest purchaser of the 1937 car, with more than 18,000 copies.

There are several manufacturers offering HO scale 1937 AAR boxcars, but like any "standard" design, there were variations in the prototype cars, as railroads could specify things such as end types, doors, roofs, brake gear, etc., etc.  This could be because they had favoured products from certain manufacturers or simply patronised them because the factories were also their on-line customers.
If I'm not mistaken, Intermountain, True Line Trains, and Accurail  at least offer versions of the 1937 cars. 
While the CNR received their cars in 1944, the CPR (the second largest buyer of 1937 AAR boxcars) got the first 500 cars (of 9630 total) in 1940 - perhaps ordered before the start of WWII in 1939.

The PS-1 didn't appear until 1947, and while it could be had with railroad-specified features, most were built to Pullman-Standard's overall specifications, which included, for the most part, Pullman-Standard doors and ends, and welded rather than rivetted bodies.

Here's a scratchbuilt 1932 ARA boxcar built to represent a Seaboard car...

As best I can recall, I don't have any 1937 AAR cars, as most weren't built until after the war, and my layout is set in the late '30s.

Wayne

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, June 22, 2017 9:31 AM

Intermountain shows the following undec kits as in stock:

 

40799     1937 AAR 40' boxcar

40899     40' 10'-6" modified AAR boxcar

 

It would seem that one of these would be what you want.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by dknelson on Thursday, June 22, 2017 9:44 AM

Atlas has, or at least had, the 1932 ARA boxcar in HO.

http://www.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/ho1932boxcar1.htm

Dave Nelson

 

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Posted by dti406 on Thursday, June 22, 2017 9:44 AM

Atlas makes 7 versions of the 1932 AAR Boxcar, and they are available from many vendors and E-bay. I just ordered two of version #7 from Walthers as they were on sale.

A PS1 is very visually differenct from a 1932 AAR Boxcar, namely in car height, the 1932 AAR Car was nominally a 9'4" IH while the PS1 was 10'6" IH, along with the PS1 ends and Bowtie Roof.

Rick Jesionowski

 

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, June 22, 2017 11:08 AM

The biggest differences are the ends and roof. P/S cars have "Bowtie" roof panels that are very distinctive. The ends on P/S cars have more rounded corrugations than "standard" ends, but this is less noticeable, especially in trains. The ladders are different, but you have a plan for that already.

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If you can look past the roof panels, why not?

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I would not buy the Intermountain kit. If you want an undecorated PS-1 boxcar, get one from Kadee. The detail is infinitely better, and they are readily available in kits or ready to run.

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-Kevin

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Posted by dehusman on Thursday, June 22, 2017 7:57 PM

Other than having different sides, different ends, different roof, are a different height and probably had different trucks, they are exactly the same.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, June 22, 2017 8:08 PM

Perhaps the OP can offer some clarification on what he is looking for.

 

Ed

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Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, June 22, 2017 9:51 PM

As far as I can tell, we are talking about at least four diferent car types at the same time. 

1. Canadian "mini box", introduced 1930 and used by CPR and CNR.HO kit available from Funaro & Camerlengo. R-T-R version was available from Tru Line a few years ago, I think.

2. 1932 AAR boxcar. R-T-R version from Atlas; kit from Funaro & Camerlengo.

3. 1937 AAR boxcar. Several sources, including various roof heights.

4. PS-1. Earliest version is a kitbash; Very numerous first mass produced version from Kadee. Later version with welded ends from Intermountain.

Tom

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, June 22, 2017 11:31 PM

So it would seem.

That's why I was hoping the OP could provide clarification.  WE'RE talking about a lot of things.  What's HE talking about?

 

Ed

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Posted by Guy Papillon on Friday, June 23, 2017 5:13 PM

Sorry for the confusion and time to reply. I was out of town for two weeks and got back home yesterday. Wayne set me straight with his reply. I was at home today and was able to look at Kalmbach Book "The Model Railroader's Guide to Freighf cars". I then realized that I should have written AAR 1937 Boxcar instead of AAR 1933 Boxcar. Although I am not a newbie to train modeling, I realize that I don't know much about prototypes.

As I have written in another post, I have built some undecorated kits during the last few months and I realized that a big part of my car fleet is un prototypical with many Athearn BB and Accurail kits, not mentioning some expensive RTR. My quest now is for some undecorated kits that will be prototypical for the CNR in the fifties. I already found some Hoppers, Tank cars and Reefers but no AAR 1937 Boxcar.

I am sorry about the confusion. Maybe I should stop that stupid quest and go back to simpler modeling tasks like applying ground foam and making trees.

 

Guy

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, June 23, 2017 8:25 PM

Guy,

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I would strongly suggest you look at the Speedwich website if you really want prototypical cars. I have built a few of their kits, and they are not bad.

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I think Kadee, Red Caboose, and Intermountain make up about 75% of my 40 foot boxcar fleet with the remainder being interesting models in resin and brass.

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HAVE FUN! Be as prototypical as you want. Don't be worried about using a Kadee PS-1 for a "standard" 40 foot boxcar. That kit is additctive! It goes together easily and looks amazing. If you want an awesome looking model it is good enough. If you want to be more prototypical, see what Speedwich, Westerfield, or Yarmouth can offer. But have fun and don't stop painting and decalling your own equipment!

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This is my project bench right now:

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-Kevin

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, June 23, 2017 8:53 PM

Guy Papillon

I then realized that I should have written AAR 1937 Boxcar instead of AAR 1933 Boxcar. 

 

 

I noted in an earlier post what I believe is a source for the very thing you are seeking.  Well, an undecorated kit version therof.

They are also offering an upcoming CN box that I think I might order.  It's going to have NSC ends.

I admit I am mystified when I answer a question that someone asks, and they react as though I didn't.  Or, more correctly, they don't react.  

Why ask, if you don't want the answer?

 

Ed

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Posted by Guy Papillon on Saturday, June 24, 2017 6:36 AM

7j43k

I noted in an earlier post what I believe is a source for the very thing you are seeking.  Well, an undecorated kit version therof.

...

I admit I am mystified when I answer a question that someone asks, and they react as though I didn't.

I apologize for not replying your first post. I should have. On another thread in General Discussion, I mentioned that a LHS owner contacted Intermountain Trains to order this item for me. The answer was they don't have any stock of this kit.

 

 

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, June 24, 2017 11:10 AM

Guy Papillon

 

  On another thread in General Discussion, I mentioned that a LHS owner contacted Intermountain Trains to order this item for me. The answer was they don't have any stock of this kit.

 

 

 

 

I see that you are also running a concurrent thread.  I did not choose to read that one, as the title seemed to be about an extremely broad subject; and I figured by the time I saw it, others had easily come up with adequate answers.  The subject here was much narrower, and I thought I might know something useful.

I have not read that topic.  I HAVE read and contributed to this one. 

Intermountain says, on their site, that they DO have both 40799 (undecorated 1937 AAR 40' boxcar) and 40899 (40' 10'-6" Modified AAR boxcar) in stock.

In my experience, Intermountain GENERALLY keeps their website current on these matters.  It is certainly true that they may not have updated their site on this matter.  It is also certainly true that it may actually reflect an in-stock item.  I suggest you phone Intermountain yourself and see the true state of the matter.

If this project is important enough for you to bring up the matter here, I would thing a phone call would be an easy matter.  I have spoken to them over the phone on occasion, and found them to be quite helpful and cooperative.  Perhaps even up to the point of informing a person just when they would RERUN undec kits.  

Note also that I mentioned that Intermountain was planning on doing a CN 1937 AAR boxcar WITH CORRECT ENDS.  Would this not also supply you with a CN car?

 

Ed

 

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Posted by Guy Papillon on Sunday, June 25, 2017 7:32 AM

7j43k

Note also that I mentioned that Intermountain was planning on doing a CN 1937 AAR boxcar WITH CORRECT ENDS.  Would this not also supply you with a CN car?

I noticed that too and it would certainly be a nice addition to my car roster but I don't need another CNR boxcar. I want a box full of plastic or resin parts I can build, paint and letter myself into a CNR Boxcar.

 

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

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Posted by Guy Papillon on Saturday, October 13, 2018 4:11 PM

I was finally lucky enough to find online two Intermountain kits for the AAR 1937 40' Boxcar (standard and modified versions).

And I learned a lot about prototypes during the process.

 

 

Guy

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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, October 13, 2018 5:15 PM

Wow, I never saw this thread, there are lots of what you want out there, half my fleet almost must be 32's.

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Posted by NHTX on Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:59 PM

    Guy, It is a pleasure to see someone wanting to create vs. simply buy.  To aid you in your endeavor to create some accurate models of Canadian 40' boxcars, may I suggest you acquire copies of the September 1993, and   February 1994 issues of Railroad Model Craftsman magazine.  The Sept. '93 issue has an eight page article covering CN's 40 foot boxcar fleet including a roster that lists the type of roof, doors, and ends used on each grouping of cars.  In the Feb. '94 magazine is a nine page article that covers the modeling of CN's 40 footers using plastic kits from Intermountain, Red Caboose or Branchline and resin doors, ends, roof and other parts that are now available from www.yarmouthmodelworks.com.

      The October 1994 and March 1995 issues of RMC provide the same coverage for Canadian Pacific's 40 footers.  All of the articles were written by Stafford Swain, a prolific modeler of things Canadian, who in conjunction with Dan Kirlin, created the line of resin parts used in modeling the cars.

     Guy, I hope you can locate the magazines because the articles are very definitive if you are modeling CN and CP 40 footers.  Good luck!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, October 14, 2018 9:37 AM

Guy,

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Those two boxcars look very good.

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You should post more of your work over in Weekend Photo Fun.

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-Kevin

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Posted by dti406 on Sunday, October 14, 2018 9:59 AM

Guy for your time period I would join the Steam Era Freight Cars Group on Groups.io

https://groups.io/g/STMFC

Also http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/index.html is a great source on Steam Era Freight cars, especially the lists on 1932, 1937, 1944 and PS1 boxcars.

Rick Jesionowski

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

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Posted by Guy Papillon on Sunday, October 14, 2018 5:22 PM

NHTX,

Thank you for the information. I will contact RMC to know if, by any chance, those magazines are still available.

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

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Posted by Guy Papillon on Sunday, October 14, 2018 5:23 PM

Rick,

Thank you for the links.

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

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Posted by NHTX on Sunday, October 14, 2018 9:20 PM

     Guy, that 1993 magazine should be the August issue, instead of September.  Sorry.

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Posted by Guy Papillon on Thursday, November 8, 2018 4:14 PM

NHTX,

Thanks again for the information. I was able to find three issues you  mentioned contacting RMC. And a friend lended me is copy for the fourth issue that was no more available at RMC. Those articles are very interesting and will certainly help me building more prototypical Canadian boxcars in the future.

Your contribution is appreciated.

Guy.

Guy

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Posted by NHTX on Friday, November 9, 2018 3:57 AM

     Guy, I'm glad you found the magazines you needed.  May I make a suggestion?  As you come across magazine articles that interest you and would be useful in your modeling, make photocopies of the articles and keep them in three-ring binders.  When you need to refer to something you remember seeing, it is a lot easier to look through a couple of binders, instead of searching through a few hundred magazines.  I have three binders covering boxcars alone.  I also have them for structures, scenery, ---you name it.  During the 1980s, there was a tremendous amount of interest in freight cars and a lot of ink was devoted to them so, I was able to amass a lot of information that I have referred to many times over the past 40 years.

                                                             NHTX

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, November 11, 2018 2:49 PM

NHTX
May I make a suggestion? As you come across magazine articles that interest you and would be useful in your modeling, make photocopies of the articles and keep them in three-ring binders.

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Boy do I wish I would have started doing that in 1983.

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Great suggestion.

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-Kevin

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Posted by NHTX on Sunday, November 11, 2018 4:24 PM

      Kevin, it is not too late to start a file of magazine articles pertinent to you.  For me, the light bulb came on in the mid 1990s and my magazine collection goes back to the early 1950s!  Titles include Model Railroading, Railroad Modeler, Prototype Modeler, Mainline Modeler, Santa Fe Modeler, Freight Cars Journal, Rail Model Journal, Model Trains, Railroad Model Craftsman, Model Railroader, and if  I've forgotten anybody, sorry.  Just do a few issues at a time. Revisting some of those old mags is like renewing old friendships.

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