Trying to determine what I want to do to add signaling to my new layout. I never had signaling in my previous layouts so I am new to the game of signaling. My N scale layout (Digitrax DCC, JMRI and RR-CirKits modules) is already being set up to use blocks to allow for signaling to be added but my plans to actually add signaling is still fuzzy. My layout represents the Santa Fe in the 70’s and 80’s. I am not concerned with displaying color signals to match all the real world rules. I want simplicity so I can quickly educate a visitor to my rules. Red is STOP, Green is CLEAR and Yellow is PROCEED AT LIMITED SPEED. Based on my research so far, I think the following represents what would be visually acceptable for Santa Fe in the 70’s and 80’s.
- Santa Fe used any combinations of signals they needed depending on specific situations but they tended to prefer simple signals. Also appears that both 1 and 2 aspect signals (using red, yellow, green and flashing) were common.
- Santa Fe typically had a platform on the mast for signal maintenance workers
- Although a tall mast was typical, they also used dwarf signals on the mainline.
This leads me to the following conclusion. Although 2 light signal heads seemed to be most common, any 1, 2 or 3 light signal head can work as long as I can display red, green, yellow and flashing from my control boards (expected to be RR-CirKit SignalMan). Looks like I can get wired signal heads on eBay for under $5 each that will meet my needs. Need to research this more. I am open to suggestions.
Would like you to look at my comments and approach and tell me if I am off track somewhere before I spend any money.
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
I think BLMA might have made some Santa Fe N scale searchlight signals. They shut down their old website, so it's tough to do research on their products anymore.
Anyway, I've got some of their HO ones, and they are REALLY NICE.
What you want to do is how I got into signaling. I just wanted the pretty colored lights to change color when I threw the switches. You know, just run them off of the auxiliary contacts on the switch machines.
And then down the rabbit hole....................
Now I'm working on building a simple interlocking. It IS actually kinda fun and neat to have the signals really work properly.
Ed
My advice would be to look up a GCOR (General Code of Operating Rules) book online, ideally an older one. ATSF was a GCOR user, and most editions of the GCOR book that I have seen show diagrams of all the signal indications, with the appropriate governing rule.
I was last over the Raton Pass line 3-4 years back, and a lot of the intermediate/automatic signals were still semaphores. Can't recall the others, as I was too busy watching for the semaphores, which I am sure I won't ever see again.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
MidlandPacificMy advice would be to look up a GCOR (General Code of Operating Rules) book online, ideally an older one. ATSF was a GCOR user, and most editions of the GCOR book that I have seen show diagrams of all the signal indications, with the appropriate governing rule.
GCOR is post 1985. He really needs a ATSF rule book pre-GCOR if he wants to see the specific ATSF rules. The GCOR will be very similar since the ATSF was part of GCOR. The specific signal aspects and indications depends on the individual railroad and is not specifically part of GCOR.
On the other hand, if you aren't going to be actually modeling the workings of the signal system, then does it really matter? If all you are going to have is three indications, why even have 2 head signals?
If I was going to just have a few signals, I would have:
Clear - Green or Green over red
Diverging clear - Red over green
Approach - yellow or yellow over red
Diverging approach - Red over yellow
Restricting - Lunar, lunar over red or red over lunar
Stop and proceed - flashing red
Stop : Red or Red over red
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I am OK with Daves suggestion for signals but that is where my planning blows up. Most of the budget signals I have seen are individual LED's of green/red or green/yellow/red thus it is not possible to get all the combinations suggested without going to a more expensive signal involving multicolor LED's. Cost quickly goes up to the point than I cannot afford signaling. That is why I am leaning toward a simple 3 light signal head which can display any color I need but only 1 color at a time. Anything beyond that and cost skyrocket.
Coincidentally I was doing the same thing earlier today. We were probably even looking at the same tall mast signal heads on ebay... amazing how cheap those things are. I'm going to get the tall mast green/yellow/red signals.
I spent a little while today making a plan on how to implement them and you're welcome to use it. It doesn't match any particular prototype but I think it's easy to understand and effective, which is all that matters to me.
The rules are:
- Every signal has three colour LEDs: a green, a yellow, and a red.
- Green generally means 'go', yellow 'slow', red (mostly) 'stop'.
- At all times one and ONLY one colour is solidly lit. The other(s) may flash, if allowed by subsequent rules.
- The solidly lit colour must be the most restrictive: eg, you can have solid yellow flashing green, but you cannot have solid green flashing yellow or solid yellow flashing red.
- A flashing colour modifies the solid aspect by increasing the speed.
- A dark signal, or a signal showing more than one solidly lit colour, means stop because there's a malfunction
Now here's a list of what each allowable signal state represents. The list goes in order of allowed speed, from full speed to complete stop. For compactness, I've written a signal state as x/x/x to show the state of each bulb. G/0/0 means green is solidly lit and the others are dark. 0/fY/R means red is solidly lit and yellow is flashing. fG/fY/fR means they're all flashing, which would not be a valid signal. Etc.
G/0/0: clear track. Proceed at 100% of the maximum speed allowed for your train on the line.
fG/Y/0: clear but a little slower than solid green, eg when going straight through a turnout. Approximately 80% of max speed
0/Y/0: clear but go at a medium pace, eg along the diverging route of a decently fast turnout like a #6 or #8. Or maybe show this if the next signal is showing red. Drive at approximately 60% of maximum speed
fG/fY/R: go a bit slower than above, eg through the diverging route of a sharper turnout such as a #4 or a 22" Snapswitch. Or maybe the next signal is red. Approx 40% of max speed.
fG/0/R: go quite slowly here, eg through the diverging route of a sharp 18" Snapswitch, or in a low speed siding. Approx 20% of max speed.
0/fY/R: go very slow (basically scale walking pace), sound your horn and have the bell ringing. Eg, there may be workers on the tracks ahead or some other hazard. Max speed of around 2cm/s for HO scale.
0/0/R: Stop and do not pass the signal.
I've settled on this design because a prototype could have used it even if none did. The key feature here is that bulbs burning out are not dangerous because a burnt out bulb never lets a train unknowingly go faster than it should. The rules about what a signal is allowed to show ensure this.
The rules state that one aspect must be solidly lit, so if the driver sees a signal with no solidly lit aspect he knows a bulb must be burned out. The rules let additional aspects flash but the flashing aspect can only increase the allowed speed, it can never make the signal more restrictive. For example, say you're trying to dispay solid yellow flashing green. But the green bulb is burnt out. The driver will not know anything is amiss. He will just see solid yellow, which is an allowed signal. But solid yellow means go slower than solid yellow flashing green, so no harm is done.
Obviously our LEDs will likely never burn out but it would be a point of concern for the incandescents in a prototype, so any signalling system should account for the possibility of burnt out bulbs.
This should also be pretty easy to teach guests. And they can almost ignore anything flashing if it's too complicated for them. It'd work alright to say solid green is go, solid yellow is slow, solid red is stop unless something is flashing in which case you go super slow.
Signalling is fun!
edit: forgot one signal state
I will probably go more simple with a single green OR yellow OR red displayed. I have no interest in the variation that relate to speed control. I still have several questions to resolve.
1) Placement of the signals relative to blocks and turnouts
2) Orientation of the signals on the layout. I want them to look right but I also want an operator to be able to see then even if I need to tilt them a bit toward the operator. I plan to order a few to play with and see what their viewing angle may be.