Hi. can anyone tell me why there running a pipe from the exhaust into the hopper car? Very interesting modelling option.
Thanks
Interesting indeed. There is a caption in tiny print at the top but it became unreadable (to my eyes) when I enlarged the photo enough to make out the letters. I saw the word Ohio and perhaps engine terminal so I am guessing from the locomotive that this is a C&O engine terminal somewhere. Perhaps whereever the photo came from would have some context.
I know in iron ore country that they ran lines from decommissioned steam locomotives to ore jennies to melt any ice and free up the load for unloading. That does not appear to be what is going on here.
I wonder if what we were seeing was some sort of home-brewed attempt at a pollution/exhaust capture system so that the smoke from an idled steam loco would be directed into a gon and perhaps provide a source of burnable coal dust in buildings and shanties. Remember that the N&W had a sign posted on tenders saying something like "smoke is fuel, wasted." I seem to recall that some Pennsy terminals in urban areas had hoods of some sort for over the stacks of idled but steaming locomotives.
Further speculation is that they were using a lidgerwood device (I think I have the spelling right) which basically was a metal plane attached to the locomotive that would shave an improved contour into the drive wheels, using the locomotive's own power to turn the wheels on rail that was greased to keep the engine from moving during the procedure. They may not have wanted the smoke from that operation to fill the air in the terminal. I know the C&NW used such devices (not the exhaust hood - the lidgerwood planers). Don't know about the C&O.
Apart from that pure speculation I don't have anything concrete to contribute but will be interested to see what others think.
Dave Nelson
Possibly sanding the flues? Blowing sand in the flues to clean them out and direct the exhaust in to a hopper to collect the "used" sand?
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Thanks for the info Dave. I did some more research where I found the photo and you were right! It's taken at C&O's Cheviot yard.
its in 1945 at a C&O loco servicing , so my thought it might be a way to prevnt sand and soot from being blowen around the area as the tubes were unsooted. you might be able to contact C&O historical society and ask them.
beaten to the punch
I found a more clear version of the photo on the internet. It has no caption information that clears up the mystery but you can see the device much more clearly. Sorry for some reason I am no longer able to make my links "live" so you will have to copy and paste
http://www.jjakucyk.com/transit/coi/large-44.html
Looks like it is blowing something into the gon. My guess......sand
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Dave,
Your link is live, and through this link, you click through the whole collection.
Mike.
My You Tube
Thanks everyone for the info and the bigger photos.
I'm going to see if the C&O historical society can shed some light on this photo. This would make a nice addition to anyone's service facility!
With the photo enlarged, it looks as if someone used a big blob of epoxy to affix the pipe to the stack.
Wayne
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Interesting, I was under the impression that sanding the flues was done when the engine was working hard and drawing a decent draught to suck the handful, cup full, or small shovel full of sand through the flues.
In addition, I thought "sanding the flues" was something required for oil-burners, not so much for coal fired locomotives. As you mention, Bear, without enough draft I think the sand would collect in the lower parts of the smokebox. The SP Cab Forward I visited at the California Railroad Museum had a small sand box in the cab.
Perhaps with poorer grades of coal flue sanding is necessary, too.
I have seen photos inside PRR roundhouses that had an elaborate smoke collection system—was it crestline, Ohio?—that helped to abate some of the smoke. This system used large ducts as well but not arranged into a hopper car.
Some cities were very strict about locomotive emissions, Pittsburgh being one of them, necessitating over-fire jets to help reduce smoke on P&LE locomotives.
The arrangement in the photo would not have much effect on smoke.
Curiouser and curiouser...too.
Ed
I like the building to the right of the locomotive. Looks like a crew shack or storage shed. Would like to model it on my layout. It may have began as a crew car / kitchen car for a MOW train? But with the lack of any kind of ladders, grabs or roof walk, I would say that it was actually built there on site?
The un-used pipe hanging behind the one being used, gives a good look at the shroud that fits over the stack.
Everything I have learned, and still learning about steam, I've learned in these forums, from all of you. I was born in 49, and was never around it. Always on the farm. OOOPS
A close study of the larger photo shows sand being blown into the hopper so,the hostler is sanding the flues.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
JOHN C TARANTO I like the building to the right of the locomotive. Looks like a crew shack or storage shed. Would like to model it on my layout. It may have began as a crew car / kitchen car for a MOW train? But with the lack of any kind of ladders, grabs or roof walk, I would say that it was actually built there on site?
It is probably an office for the hostlers, or service track foreman. It looks like it was a boxcar at one time, it could have been built as an MofW car or a boxcar converted into an MofW car. If could have been a wreck damaged car those frame and superstructure were salvaged as a building. I wouldn't put too much stock in there not being ladders or roofwalk. They were probably removed and the siding patched. Its the railroad mechanical department, they do that sort of thing every day for a living. I doubt it was purpose built as a building to that design, all the other buildings around there are obviously built and are different designs, most notably the roof pitches and roof material.
I would start with a 34 or 36 ft wood sided car as a starting point for the size, I would scratch build it from scribed siding for the sides and ends with sheet material for the roof, adding thin strips (.010 x.020 or .020 square) for the standing seams.
Anybody notice the layout size 4 stall roundhouse? The Atlas type shanty or the square office building? I suspect that's for the roundhouse foreman and power desk.
Notice the gent standing in the gauge?
Nice picture find! I would agree that this shot depicts sanding the flues. Modern steamers such as this one had "blowers' in the smokebox that allowed the crew to 'manually' put a draft on the fire while the locomotive was sitting still - not working.
I too was under the impression that sanding the flues was done while working the engine. This picture would negate that operation as the only time 'sanding the flues' was done. However, makes me wonder how the sanding would affect the blower - would it be cleaned as well or would the sand ruin the internals of the blower? The picture would elude to the fact that sanding was a necessary cleaning chore.
Did anyone else notice the ash pit conveyor rails? More specifically... look how close they come to the hopper car under them! This fine speciman of a loco seems to be getting the works. I do wonder though that if the loco was having the fire 'cleaned', its possible that they are collecting cinders that are making it around the brick arch and through the flues. Dont want those flying over into one of those coal laden hoppers, or on top of that wooden shack.
Im going with sanding the flues here though.
As for the shack to the right, yes, that was a boxcar at one time. Its construction and size easily lend to this. Compare it to the hoppers next to it and behind of it just a bit. It appears to be pre-air brake era.
Very nice picture indeed. The locomotive face, plus the gorgeous loco with vandy tender on the turntable easily give this away as C&O territory without looking that up. Thanks for posting the link to the rest of the photo collection. Some real nice shots in there!
PM Railfan
I find it interesting that what is likely a shed for the drive mechanism for the ash dump is remarkably similar to a caboose cupola--the length, the width, the window placement. And yet it is much taller. And no side windows. And no seam in the siding where the former bottom of the cupola siding would be.
A tough call, for me.
PS: in one of the other pictures, there's a scale test car--not something you see every day
PM Railfan Nice picture find! I would agree that this shot depicts sanding the flues. Modern steamers such as this one had "blowers' in the smokebox that allowed the crew to 'manually' put a draft on the fire while the locomotive was sitting still - not working. I too was under the impression that sanding the flues was done while working the engine. This picture would negate that operation as the only time 'sanding the flues' was done. However, makes me wonder how the sanding would affect the blower - would it be cleaned as well or would the sand ruin the internals of the blower? --snip-- PM Railfan
I too was under the impression that sanding the flues was done while working the engine. This picture would negate that operation as the only time 'sanding the flues' was done. However, makes me wonder how the sanding would affect the blower - would it be cleaned as well or would the sand ruin the internals of the blower? --snip--
The blower was simply a steam nozzle co-located with the main cylinder blast nozzle. No moving parts to damage.
In one of the books I have there is a post-WWII photo of a N&W facility which showed ready track steam parked under what looked like quonset huts on stilts - an attempt to abate any solid particles in the smoke of standing engines.
Looking at the condition of the ground around the flue-sanding area, I could just imagine the rain of sand, soot and microcinders if the stuff was simply blown into the air. Worse yet - I could imagine being under it...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Ed, you got me looking at that now. Not that I was around at that time, and know anything, but the shed/box car looking building looks like the cabin part of the caboose. Maybe with some alterations from the shops carpenters?
For:
Same roof slope on each. Which is about the same as the slope on rolling stock.
The window on the side of the shed is just where a caboose window would be.
The door looks a bit too narrow for a regular building door but about right for a caboose.
Proportions of each about right for a caboose.
Against:
Most cabeese had an overhang over the platform. It woulda been nice to have kept that feature. If it was ever there.
There were C&O cabeese with front/rear cupola windows like the shed has EXCEPT the shed has more space above the windows. NO WAY someone's going to reuse a cupola like that and lower the windows a few inches--they either stay or go. They don't move.
7j43k ...a shed for the drive mechanism for the ash dump is remarkably similar to a caboose cupola...