Hi gang!
I'm working on an MDC 4-6-0 backdating it to resemble this Grand Trunk locomotive:
The locomotive was in service early in the 1900s and was taken out of service in 1931 (thanks to doctorwayne for the information). I am going to run it as a bright shiney museum piece in the late 1950s but I would like to have it pulling some passenger cars from the period when it was in actual revenue service. My knowledge of early passenger cars is pretty much nil. What do you suggest?
Thanks
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
If the engine was in service in the early
1900's, any of the 60' - 90' heavyweight passenger cars would be appropriate. Either wood or steel cars would be good.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
https://www.labellemodels.com/scale-passenger-cars-c-21_23.html?osCsid=6mdio0fedlr0id6f4ak5tkifs7
Dave,
LaBelle has kits that would make suitable cars. The big choice would be between vestibules or platforms, as both could be appropriate.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Dave, although they were frequently built for passenger service, with large diameter drivers and sometimes even with larger than normal (usually 30"diameter) pilot truck wheels, both 4-4-0 Americans and 4-6-0 Ten-wheelers were considered dual service locomotives. Their 4-wheel pilot trucks were considered better for track-holding, guiding the locos through switches and curves, in the faster-paced "varnish" (old-timers referred to passenger equipment by this nickname because they were usually varnished over the roads' coach colors) service. They were also able to negotiate light trackage, as the 4-wheel pilot trucks spread the weight out for less damage.
I'm currently expecting delivery shortly of a book I ordered from the Milwaukee Road Historical Association about that road's Ten-wheelers. As I commented to one of the editors, I think of these versitile locos as "Steam Geeps," because they were used the same way as the diesel road switchers that replaced them. They pulled passenger trains and freights with equal utility and were not above doing yard duty in between times. Very versitile!
Deano
Mel:
Nothing personal but 35' coaches just turn me off for some strange reason. They look too toy like to me. Maybe that's because every model of them that I have seen have had the 'Tyco' sort of crude, overly heavy details. No offense! Thanks for your suggestion.
jrbernier:
In other words I have a wide choice. That's great! I would like all of the excursion cars to be of the same style but I'm not set in stone with that.
Mike:
I looked at the LaBelle kits a long time ago because they had the closest cars to the Algoma Eastern Railway which ran between Sudbury and the Manitoulin Island. The AER is my favourite railroad for many reasons. My family rode on it and it went through some of the most picturesque scenery in Ontario, and it was one of those railways where the engineer could wave to the conductor as both ends of the train were going in opposite directions around some of the curves.
Deano:
The locomotive will primarily be pulling excursion passenger cars but it would be nice to have a couple of early truss rod freight cars sitting on display at the 'museum'.
Thanks everybody for sharing your thoughts.
Cheers!
If the LaBelle offerings aren't exactly what you're looking for, keep in mind that they're wood and very easy to transform into something else in terms of length, roof style, window style and placement, etc.
A good example of how different options play out in the hand of an experienced builder, which you are, probably much better than me TBQH, was how I hacked a LaBelle D&RGW combine into the Silverton RR's Red Mountain (the middle car), between a Labelle RPO/Express built per the kit and a Blackstone coach.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
In 1931, when your locomotive ended its service, you could find open vestibule cars in service, but they weren't the norm. Enclosed vestibules were pretty much standard by then. If the practices of a specific prototype road apply, then that's your guide; but you don't seem to feel constrained by a particular prototype. By the way, that's an observation --- not a value judgment. Wood and steel cars were both in use in 1931, and some wood cars lasted much later.
I really like Mike's suggestion that you look into the LaBelle kits. If their complexity seems intimidating, I would start with the baggage car. Lack of windows makes it simpler than the coach or combine. After that, you can add a coach. If you're up to it, this could be a matching LaBelle car. Alternately, it could be a steel car kit from another source. I would avoid a PRR P70 because you weren't too likely to find them on non-PRR lines in the steam era.
In my mind's eye I can envision your Ten Wheeler hauling a LaBelle Baggage, followed by enclosed vestibule Combine and Coach.
Tom
hon30critter Mel: Nothing personal but 35' coaches just turn me off for some strange reason. They look too toy like to me. Maybe that's because every model of them that I have seen have had the 'Tyco' sort of crude, overly heavy details. No offense! Thanks for your suggestion.
The Prairie Dog Central which operates near Winnipeg seems to match what you are considering. Even though their steam engine is older, the train dates from the 1900-1920 era. LaBelle cars would be a good choice.
http://www.pdcrailway.com/
For charter or excursion service the train will be mostly coaches, with perhaps an open door baggage or combine. In regular service back in the era a much greater percentage of headend cars would be expected, and a mix of passenger car types.
John
Fo
Here's a suggestion: You seem to be interested in a museum type of operation. How about looking up the web site for the Mid Continent Railway Museum in North Freedom, Wisconsin? Their roster of equipment, including steam locos, passenger cars, freight cars, and cabooses seem to come close to matching the type of thing you would want.
Dave, if you're running the locomotive in excursion service, pretty-well any coach would be suitable, so you can pick the ones which you like best.
While this MDC car has been downgraded to MoW service and has a couple of plated-over windows and a drab paint job, it's 56' length would work well if you have some tight curves:
The roof on mine is an older style "duckbill"-type, but the same car can be had with a more standard clerestory roof, too:
Another option would be MDC's "Palace" cars - I believe MDC offered a combine, coach, Pullman, diner, and an observation car. All are 80' long. This one is the coach:
...and this one is the combine, re-built with a steel underframe:
The CNR ran some of these cars into the '50s on branchlines, either with steel underframes or with the steel underframes and truss rods.
You could also use the Athearn 72' heavyweight steel coaches, another good choice for tight-ish curves. This is the Athearn clerestory-roofed coach:
...and the arched-roofed version of the same car:
Branchline coach:
Branchline (Atlas) paired-window coach:
Rivarossi Pullman converted to a coach:
Rivarossi coach:
You could also use any of the lightweight-type cars, smooth-sided or corrugated-sided, by Walthers, Rivarossi, ConCor, etc., etc.
Wayne
I like the cars!
Hi Bear!
Thanks for the links to the great photos!
I haven't studied Grand Trunk history in detail, but I do know that it was pivotal in the the Montreal to Windsor corridor development.
Tom:
I like the idea of building some Labelle kits to fill my needs. I have only done a couple of older wood caboose kits so far, but I didn't find them difficult at all so I'm not worried about making the step up to the Labelles. In fact I'm looking forward to it. Your train configuration sounds ideal.
Thanks,
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm leaning towards cars in the 60' range.
John:
The PDC Railway is very interesting. We live just a short drive from the South Simcoe Railroad. Their 4-4-0 steamer is 136 years old IIRC and it has been in more or less continuous service since new with a couple of short down periods for repairs. It was completely rebuilt about six years ago. I have an older IHC model which is pretty close.
Wayne:
As always your rolling stock looks great.
I'm leaning towards the Labelle kits simply because they will be a relatively new challenge, especially if I bash the kits a bit. I'm a little bit bored with just bringing BB kits up to RPs.
Minimum radius is approx. 26" and most curves are a bit larger so I can run longer cars. However, I'm leaning towars cars in the 60' - 70' range so they don't look quite as bad on the curves.
Thanks all! I really appreciate your suggestions.
Regards,
This is one of the Algoma Eastern's passenger cars:
Here is one of their Combines:
I believe both could be used for the Grand Trunk Rairoad and I know that Labelle has offered both a coach and a combine with window patterns that are pretty close to the prototype, and which would seem to be pretty easy to modify properly. Unfortunately, I have cold feet re the cost, and the shipping is too expensive too. I suspect that I am headed back to bashing plastic cars but the challenge is finding something with the proper 1 over 2 split window pattern.
What the heck, its only money. I just ordered a coach and a combine.