I'm developing ideas for a freelanced transition era layout, and I'm looking for steam power appropriate for my yet-to-be-named line. Here are some of my desired details:
-A north-south route connecting Chicago with Houston and the Gulf, with major lines spreading out to Omaha, Des Moines, Kansas City, Little Rock, Oklahoma City, Ft. Worth, Austin, and San Antonio along the way.
-1953
-Premier daily fast freight service between Chicago and the Gulf. (Mostly now handled by F Units, but steam still not uncommon.)
-Steam power for secondary passenger trains, as well as back-ups for the road's flagship streamliner. (Once used on flagship trains, now bumped to secondary.)
-Modeling the Texas portion of the system.
Let's here your recommendations!
Dakota
Freight:
A lot of 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s. These would power most freights and would be the backbone of the system's steam power.
Either 4-6-0s or 2-6-0s (usually not both) as local and branch power.
A class or two of either 2-10-4s or 2-8-4s, but probably not both.
A class or two of drag 2-10-2s.
A couple of classes of 4-8-2s and 4-8-4s. These would generally be for dual service but could be stuck in either role.
Passenger:
A few ancient 4-4-2s for local power, along with higher-drivered 4-6-0s.
Several classes of Pacifics, the backbone of passenger power.
A class of 4-6-4s.
Yards:
Steam would probably be gone by this time here, but a few 0-8-0s might survive.
Mel's right could be run through SP power. But headed that direction from Texas suggests that an SP-related roster would tend toward the Cotton Belt. A close family relationship, but with a specific look at it. Here's a place to start: http://arkansasrailroadmuseum.org/
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Your proposed railroad would be a major carrier if it hit all those points. What you are proposing is basically a duplicate of the Missouri Pacific (actually your freelanced road would be bigger than the MoPac).
I would suggest researching the MoPac, since it followed the same route in the same era and hit virtually all the cities you named.
Local trains 2-8-0, 4-6-0's
Heavy passenger 4-6-2, 4-8-2
Freight trains 2-8-2, 2-8-4, 4-8-2, 4-8-4
Drag trains 2-10-2
I wouldn't consider articulateds. You might want to go post WW2 rather than transition era. The MP dieselized completely by 1956. I would also suggest picking a particular area and concentrate on that. Steam engines tended to be used in a particular area. For example if you are modeling the Gulf Coast, then 4-6-0, 2-8-0 and 2-8-2's will dominate, while up in Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas you will get the heavier power.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
The territory you describe remnds me of Rock Island, Santa Fe, MoPac, SL-SF, and a few others. Typically, the big power for steam freight service would have been 4-8-4's and 4-8-2's. In your time period, these would have been dual service engines, or downgraded from passenger service as the passenger diesels arrived. Helpers might have been needed to get trains out of the river valleys, and steam helpers might be these engines, or 2-8-2's or 2-10-2's. In the tansition period, roads were dropping old notions of strict usage of steam engines for specific jobs, so there's a lot of flexibility here. Lighter general utility work would probably be handled by 2-8-0's or 2-8-2's.
In the early years of dieselization, switching servce was one of the frst preferences for dieselization, and old 0-6-0's were among the first to be replaced by diesels. Newer and more modern 0-8-0's might last a bit longer in yard service.
Articulated locos and 2-10-4's were extremely rare in this territory, although a few were used in specific situations.
You have indicated that your passenger service is dieselized, at least for the most part. A few Pacifics or Hudsons might be kept as standby power, or for secondary passenger trains, and the dual service 4-8-2's and 4-8-4's would also be useful here. Some roads bought freight diesels with steam generators so they could be used on passenger trains in a pinch (F's on B&O; Geeps on NKP, for example).
Tom
I model the IC in 1955. Passenger service was all dieselized by then. Many of the 4-6-2s that were used in secondary passenger service had been rebuilt with lower drivers and were serving in secondary freight service. If you want to use steam on your secondary passenger routes, I'd suggest 4-6-2s and 4-8-2s.
The IC wasn't using a lot of 2-8-0s by then, there were just a few left. Most freight was handled by 2-8-2s. At one time the IC had nearly 600 of them, mostly built between 1915 and 1917 and rebuilt in the Paducah shops in the 30s and 40s. There were a lot of 2-10-2s still in use in coal drag service. There were some 2-8-4s, including the original Lima Superpower prototype but they were mostly used in the hills of deep Southern Illinois and Western Kentucky.
The 0-6-0s were mostly gone with just a few left switching things like the Centralia and McComb car shops. Most of the switching was done with USRA clone 0-8-0s purchased in the early 1920s.
I'd suggest the following since your railroad is going to compete with the IC.
Secondary Passenger and backup power: 4-6-2s and 4-8-2s perhaps some 4-8-4s
Your choice of mainline freight power is going the depend on what kind of goods you will haul. I'm thinking that Chicago to Houston would mostly be faster merchandise trains and perhaps some produce. This would eliminate the 2-10-2s and the 2-8-4s as they weren't fast enough to to run a comptetive schedule with your competition. If you are going to haul coal or some other commodity like that you could get by with 2-10-2s and 2-8-4s. I'd go with 4-8-2s and 4-8-4s for mainline freight.
I'd suggest 2-8-2s and maybe a couple of 2-8-0s for local and branchline freight.
Looking at the terrain they operated in, the freight they carried and the schedules they needed to keep to be competitive was how the prototype selected locomotives. The available facilities also played a major role in assignment of locomotives. You wouldn't assign a locomotive that needed 110 foot turntable to a division where there was only a 90 foot turntable available.
Jeff White Alma, IL
What will be the size of your pike? Since you are freelancing, the curve radius of your railway may affect your options. A 4X8, for example, is not very accomodating for anything larger than a 2-8-2, in my opinion.
By 1953, railroads that still had steam had mostly sold/scrapped it's older, smaller steam engines. Branch lines were some of the first lines to be dieselized. Engines with small drivers, like used in drag freights, would have been replaced with diesels, probably F-units. By 1953, you had passenger steam engines that had hauled the top of the line varnish in the 1920's-30's hauling local passenger runs, fast freights, and even local freights on occassion.
Anyway, for free lancing 1953 steam, USRA engines are your friends! 4-6-2s / 4-8-2s for passenger, 2-8-2s for freights. You might still find a 2-8-0 here and there, but most of them would be pushing 40 years old. Remember, railroads retired their oldest engines first, not the newest.
wjstixRemember, railroads retired their oldest engines first, not the newest.
Typically, that would be the case, but there are numerous situations where this did not play out. The two most common scenarios involve light bridges and ancient light locomotives, which often ended in abandonment instead of dieselization. The other involved larger modern power that could not be reasonably cascaded to lesser assignments being survived by older power that could fit those assignments.
Exceptions can be made and justified, just try to limit them.
It has been suggested that it can be easier to stick with a specific prototype, rather than to freelance. It can be more difficult to create plausible fiction than to simply copy the actual facts.
DDavidsonFarms I'm developing ideas for a freelanced transition era layout, and I'm looking for steam power appropriate for my yet-to-be-named line. Here are some of my desired details: -A north-south route connecting Chicago with Houston and the Gulf, with major lines spreading out to Omaha, Des Moines, Kansas City, Little Rock, Oklahoma City, Ft. Worth, Austin, and San Antonio along the way. -1953 -Premier daily fast freight service between Chicago and the Gulf. (Mostly now handled by F Units, but steam still not uncommon.) -Steam power for secondary passenger trains, as well as back-ups for the road's flagship streamliner. (Once used on flagship trains, now bumped to secondary.) -Modeling the Texas portion of the system. Let's here your recommendations!
Northerns (4-8-4) for freight and passenger service.
Mountains (4-8-2) for passenger service.
Mikados (2-8-2) for local and some secondary thru-freight service.
Consolidations (2-8-0) for switching service. In the late transition era that usually would be locations that didn't have continuous yard engines.
At least that's about what the Rock Island had in the late transition era. Except for Austin and San Antonio, the freelanced system would just about resemble the RI. By the end of 1953 the RI would be dieselized. The remaining steam engines in storage, held for seasonal rushes, would never be fired up again by the RI. (They were able to temporarily lease diesels from other railroads instead.) Although a switch engine (0-8-0 IIRC) was fired up in the Spring of 1954 to switch a yard during a flood. Something a diesel-electric couldn't do.
Jeff
As a free-lancer myself, I don't think it's that hard to figure out what engines you need. Look at what real railroads did who had similar needs to what your railroad needs - do you need huge engines for hauling coal or iron ore, or lighter fast engines for express freights? (or both?)
I try whenever possible to stick to generic engines...that is, I normally wouldn't buy say a Pennsy steam engine and then claim my railroad bought it 'used' (although that is possible of course). That's where USRA engines come in, USRA engines and copies were made into the early 1950's, so any of them could have been used by a free-lance railroad.
The mention of clearly identifiable PRR designs prompts some thoughts. For the sake of plausibility, I think I would be careful to avoid using engines that are readily identifiable signature engines of any well known railroad. A Union Pacific or Santa Fe 4-8-4 would be clearly identifiable, and it's well known that they did not sell off those engines to second users. If you decide to use such equipment, then I suggest making significant modifications to bring them in line with the standards and architecture of your other locomotives. You could adopt a standard tender and cab design, and possibly standardize on one particular preferred type of feedwater heater, for example.
If you decide to get a "second-hand" Pennsylvania Railroad engine, please don't make it a Decapod or K4s or Duplex! PRR never sold any to second operators, so it wouldn't be plausible. They did sell L1s 2-8-2's and H9s and H10s 2-8-0's, so that might make a bit more sense, but not many of these made it into your territory.
USRA is your friend. I could see USRA heavy 4-8-2's, possibly with cabs & tenders from junker NKP/Pere Marquette/C&O 2-8-4's, as your primary heavy fast freight engines. Thery probably ought to have Delta trailing trucks. Get those parts at a RR swap meet. Light and/or Heavy USRA Mikados, possibly with the same cab & tender changes, could be your general utility engines. Diesel switchers and USRA 0-8-0's would dominate the yards. Passenger service would mostly be PA's or E units, with a tired old Pacific on a soon-to-be-canceled secondary train.
At least that's the way I'd do it.
For USRA steam, Bachmann makes USRA light and heavy 4-8-2s, 2-6-6-2, and light 2-10-2. Several companies make USRA heavy or light 2-8-2 and 4-6-2s, or are at least in the process of bringing them to market. Walthers makes the old Life-Like / Proto USRA 0-6-0 and 0-8-0. Not sure if they still make the USRA 2-8-8-2?
Bachmann and BLI both also make a 'generic' 2-8-0 that is similar to engines owned by several railroads.
There were also standard USRA freight cars, and a caboose (similar to the "Eastern" ("North Eastern"?) caboose, with the cupola in the middle of the body rather than offset to one side.)
Thanks guys for all the good info. I sort of had an idea for what I wanted but this clarified it a little better. Here's what I'm thinking so far based on the recommendations:
1. Several 4-8-2s for mainline freight (can't decide on Light or Heavy type, though). These will be locos originally built as dual purpose engines that have been gradually bumped down to freight service, save for one that will handle an all heavyweight accomodation passenger train. I kinda wanted 4-8-4s, but seems every one that's produced looks too much like a specific prototype....the USRA Mountain type will be easier to freelance, as stated above. All will be fitted with oil tenders and feature details to show modernization in the 1930s and 40s.
2. Some Lima 2-8-4s. These will be the Nickel Plate design, but with oil tenders and a few other detail changes to disguise the appearance. I'd like these to represent the last steam locomotives built for the system. I read that the Santa Fe ordered 4-8-4s and 2-10-4s during WWII because the war production restrictions limited how many diesels they could order. I'll try and use this same concept for my Berkshires.
3. One USRA Light 2-8-2. This will handle local freights and branch service where the larger locomotives would not be suitable....right along side the ALCO RS1s that are spelling it's doom. This will be one of the final examples of smaller steam locomotives still in use on the line, as diesel switchers have largely taken over these duties.
I will be focusing on modeling the Central Texas portion of the line. A rural fictional area somewhere between Ft. Worth and Houston.
Your choice of route will drive the types of traffic you haul. If you model the Ft Worth to Austin/San Antonio leg instead of Ft Worth to Houston, you will get more produce and Mexico traffic, plus cement and rock from the Austin area. Going into Houston you would probably use the Houston Belt and Terminal (HBT) or Port Terminal RR Association (PTRA) for your terminal company and Union Station (now the Astros' Minutemaid Park) as your passenger terminal. Houston would have some chemicals and would have ability for export grain trains via the PTRA. Austin would have export to Mexico. There tended to be more passenger service to Laredo for people going to Mexico
There would be a crew change about half way between Ft Worth and Houston or San Antonio, all the railroads used two crews (ATSF - Temple, MKT-Waco, MP - Taylor or Mart), so you might want to choose one half of the route. Southern halves would be more hilly and treed, the northern halves flatter and more prairie.
Rail would be lighter, probably no CTC. You would be able to have crossings of the ATSF, SP, MP, TP, MKT, FWD/CB&Q, CRIP.
DDavidsonFarms Thanks guys for all the good info. I sort of had an idea for what I wanted but this clarified it a little better. Here's what I'm thinking so far based on the recommendations: 1. Several 4-8-2s for mainline freight (can't decide on Light or Heavy type, though). These will be locos originally built as dual purpose engines that have been gradually bumped down to freight service, save for one that will handle an all heavyweight accomodation passenger train. I kinda wanted 4-8-4s, but seems every one that's produced looks too much like a specific prototype....the USRA Mountain type will be easier to freelance, as stated above. All will be fitted with oil tenders and feature details to show modernization in the 1930s and 40s. 2. Some Lima 2-8-4s. These will be the Nickel Plate design, but with oil tenders and a few other detail changes to disguise the appearance. I'd like these to represent the last steam locomotives built for the system. I read that the Santa Fe ordered 4-8-4s and 2-10-4s during WWII because the war production restrictions limited how many diesels they could order. I'll try and use this same concept for my Berkshires. 3. One USRA Light 2-8-2. This will handle local freights and branch service where the larger locomotives would not be suitable....right along side the ALCO RS1s that are spelling it's doom. This will be one of the final examples of smaller steam locomotives still in use on the line, as diesel switchers have largely taken over these duties. I will be focusing on modeling the Central Texas portion of the line. A rural fictional area somewhere between Ft. Worth and Houston.
You have received lots of good info so far. As a freelance modeler in the transition era, I will share some of what I have done.
I model the Mid Atlantic, so my roster is a little different, but I have done a lot give it a family look and a logical progression feel.
A few key points:
Limit the number of different wheel arrangements - example, the B&O never owned a Berkshire or a Northern, their Mikes and Mountains did just fine.
Keep common details similar where you can, many of my locos have been converted to Bachmann long haul tenders and delta trailing trucks as part of the "family" look.
Limit the styles of tenders, tender designs did change, but locos built in similar era would likely have the same designs system wide.
Remember that relatively few Berkshires and Northerns existed compared to 2-8-2's, 2-8-0's, 4-6-2's or even 4-8-2's.
Here is what I did for a unique Mike:
I took Bachmann Berks and mixed the details from the C&O and NKP versions, and converted them to Mikes. In fact, LIMA could have built this loco, it would have worked. They did build something similar, the DT&I 800 series..... There are 5 of these, in three sub classes. This photo was before the final paint work......
My ATLANTIC CENTRAL has nine Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountains, we use them for dual service, some are oil fired.
We have a number of articulated locos, among them, three of these 2-6-6-2's.
Other steam power includes:
Spectrum 2-8-0's
BLI Heavy 2-8-2's with Bachmann long haul tenders and delta trailing trucks
Several heavy and light USRA Pacifics, all with Bachmann long haul oil tenders and delta trailing trucks.
The 2-6-6-2's have also been converted to delta trailing trucks.....
There are two 2-8-8-0's, converted from Proto USRA 2-8-8-2's, the same way the B&O did with 2-8-8-2's it got from the Seaboard.
Also two N&W Class A 2-6-6-4's, but with the large tenders from the C&O Berks, because the N&W tender is very "N&W".
And three Spectrum 2-10-2 lights, modernized drivers, long haul tenders, and kit bashed, with delta trailing trucks.
The ATLANTIC CENTRAL does have two Northerns, but given its location, I picked a classic eastern Northern, the Reading T-1. And they have tenders very similar to the Berks, keeping a progressive, but family look to the fleet.
Hope this helps,
Sheldon
Thanks for the advice and the examples, Sheldon. Great looking models, and sounds like a great layout.
Would it be possible for me to trouble you for pics of your 2-10-2s? I really have a soft spot for those, but just wasn't sure if I could realistically pull them off for Texas that late in the steam era. But yours sound as if your railroad has modernized and upgraded them to extend their life.
DDavidsonFarms Thanks for the advice and the examples, Sheldon. Great looking models, and sounds like a great layout. Would it be possible for me to trouble you for pics of your 2-10-2s? I really have a soft spot for those, but just wasn't sure if I could realistically pull them off for Texas that late in the steam era. But yours sound as if your railroad has modernized and upgraded them to extend their life.
You will have to give me a day or two to take a picture.......
The USRA 2-10-2 was plagued with frame problems and balance problems. The roads that kept them longer invested in Boxpok main drivers so they could be better balanced. Don't know if you know about them, Boxpok drivers had hollow spokes so that lead could be poured into them for very precise balancing - especially important on thes locos because five axles mean very heavy rods, and the small diameter leaves little room for conventional counter weight.
In my world, our 2-10-2's have been upgraded with the Boxpok main drivers and cast one piece engine beds. Yes they are still slow, but east coast roads needed drag engines to the end of steam.
I will see what I can do about a photo.
I had heard of them, but didn't know what they were truly for. Interesting. And I will be looking forward to seeing them, thanks.