Chicago and Northwestern "400"

[Anonymous]

What type of passenger cars did the streamlined E4 4-6-4 Chicago and Northwestern Hudson pull? Were they streamlined or heavyweights? I believe the name of the train from Chicago to Minneapolis was the "400", but i can't seem to locate any pictures of the cars.

Thank you in advance!!

[cspmo]

This is the only photo I found thus far of a CNW E-4 Hudson.

http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=12

You might want to try CNW Yahoo groups

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/cnw/
http://www.railserve.com/jump/jump.cgi?ID=6568

[CG9602]

It depends upon what time period you are interested in. For example, when the "400" was first inaugerated, it pulled heavyweight cars. That was in the mid 1930s. I think the first streamlined cars in "400" service appeared just before the Second World War, and were used on the run from Chicago to St. Paul. After the end of the Second World War, the original "400" was switched to diesel engines, and the streamlined cars appeared on the other CNW passenger trains. I seem to recall the Dakota "400" having streamlined cars with a streamlined steam engine in the late 1940s.

When the "400" first began running, it was all heavyweight, though, with no streamlining on the E-2 Pacifics.

[passengerfan]

The E-4 4-6-4 Hudsons were used on the east - west mainline and the only streamlined cars they would have pulled prior to WW - II would have been the CHALLENGER cars operated jointly with the UP and SP to both Los Angeles and San Francisco. The C&NW Challengers operated these trains and heavyweight trains between Chicago and Omaha only. It is believed they were to heavy for the other C&NW mainlines.

[Anonymous]

Although the C&NW plannned to use E-4s on the 400 trains, they never saw such service. At least 4 major bridges between Chicago and the Twin Cities would have had to be rebuilt or otherwise strengthened to accomodate them, and the railroad opted to dieselize the 400s instead--no bridge modifications were needed for the diesels.

In fact, the 400s were dieselized before the streamlined cars arrived in 1939.

The E-4 Hudsons were assigned to the Chicago-Omaha route where they pulled all of the through passenger and mail-and-express trains except for the dieselized "City" streamliners. Most of those trains consisted entirely of heavyweight equipment. The "Challenger" trains carried streamlined coaches (supplied by CNW, UP and SP)and heavyweight diners, lounges and sleepers.

[Anonymous]

Were these cars dark green or did they have the yellow and green combination? Are there any models that approximate their appearance being produced?

Thank you very much for the Help!

[Anonymous]

Until the end of WWII just about eveything was Pullman green with black roofs. That even goes for the streamlined coaches. The C&NW's streamlined "Challenger" coaches did have gold striping and lettering like that on the E-4s.

After the war, UP, SP and C&NW painted a number of cars (both streamlined and heavyweight) in two-tone gray. The Armour yellow paint scheme was reserved for the streamlined "Cities" trains until 1952, when UP began applying it to all of its passenger equipment, and SP and C&NW applied it to several cars assigned to joint service on trains operating over UP lines. Repainting didn't occur all at once, so in the early 50s the trains on the Chicago-Omaha route carried cars sporting a variety of paint schemes. Also, it wasn't uncommon for cars in the yellow and green "400" paint scheme to show up in trains on this line.

In terms of HO models, the Rivarossi 60 foot cars are right on the money for C&NW (the prototypes for all 4 of these cars are C&NW). The Rivarossi heavyweight baggage and baggage-RPO cars (the 70-footers) are also reasonably close to C&NW cars.

Model Die Casting makes 60 foot Harriman-style baggage and RPO cars which would be good for UP or SP cars.

The Athearn streamlined coach would be okay for a Southern Pacific "Challenger" coach. And the Con-Cor 70-foot streamlined coach is a shortened version of a C&NW "400" coach.

Heavyweight sleepers, diners and coaches from Walthers or Branchline also would be appropriate for these trains.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Everyone!! Your responses have been invaluable!! I received a Brass E4 as a gift, but i did not know what cars to run with it. Again, Thank you.

[dknelson]

That is some gift! I believe that last tragic use of those beautiful and huge E4 4-6-4s was up in iron ore country -- where they were used as stationary boilers used to keep the ore from freezing in the ore jennies. And even then nobody thought to preserve one of them.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Just a little aside> It isn't quit proper to refer to the trains that ran from Chicago to Omaha as "400"s. As I recall the original name was provided by the C&NW in 1935 to indicate that the travel time between Chicago and the twin cities was going to be 400 minutes a good advertiseing angel. However on our model railroads we can call something anything we want. I love it

[Anonymous]

C&NW planned a "Corn King 400" to run between Chicago on the east, and Sioux City and Omaha on the west, in the years just after WWII. Although a schedule for the proposed train was publicized, and cars for it were built and delivered, the train never materialized. (It would have been in head-to-head competition with Milwaukee Road's "Midwest Hiawatha".)

After the through trains jointly operated with UP and SP were shifted to Milwaukee Road in October 1955, C&NW did establish a "400" train on the east-west main line--the "Kate Shelley 400" which ran from Chicago as far west as Boone, Iowa. The train eventually was reduced to a Chicago-Clinton, Iowa run, but lasted until the Amtrak takeover in 1971.