Hi, I want to know when wood cabooses were rebuilt/scrapped and steel cabooses were used. Roughly what time did the conversion happen?
I asked this because I want to know what types of cabooses I should buy/use for my layout
Thanks
Charles
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Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO
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Depends upon the railroad. Early cabooses were generally all-wood, including a wooden frame with steel truss rods. Steel underframes gradually came into use, becoming the de facto standard by about the 'teens.
All-steel freight car construction was introduced around the turn of the 20th Century, and steel caboose designs started to appear about that time. The PRR N5 steel caboose appeared within a few years of 1900, but was initially produced in small numbers. The N6a and N6b, with a steel underframe and wooden body, came slightly later and was produced in very large numbers. Then the PRR returned to the N5 steel design around the early 1940's and then built other later steel classes. Wooden N6b's continued in service into the early 1960's. I understand the Union RR in Pittsburgh was another road that introduced steel cabooses at an early date.
Nevertheless, the wood car with steel frame seems to have been the dominant North American "standard" type for new construction until around the 1930's, when B&O, Milwaukee, and others began to produce steel cars. By the end of WWII, new production was almost exclusively steel, but many wood-body cars continued to operate in the 1960's, and even the 1970's.
What era and geographical area interest you? Those factors can make a difference.
Hi, I said "roughly" because I know that it is railroad specific.
But to be railroad specific, Im talking about the Santa fe railroad. And I mean steel caboose by the steel body cabooses (like the brown ones by athearn).
So when were they produced?
Trainman440But to be railroad specific, I'm talking about the Santa fe railroad.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
As previously said, it depends..........
I would say in general he 1950s were the major swing decade where the wood cabeese became the minority. But still, wooden ones were around on various railroads for years to come.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
"JaBear"- Thanks, those links defenintly helped. I realized I how complex and detailed a ATSF caboose really is.
Mobilman44 - as I said, im modeling the Santa fe :D
Dont know if you noticed.
wasn't one motivation for all steel caboose is their use with pusher service where the strength is needed to prevent collapse as well as the safety of the crew?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregcwasn't one motivation for all steel caboose is their use with pusher service where the strength is needed to prevent collapse as well as the safety of the crew?
Hi again......
Yes, I noticed the OP was modeling the ATSF, which was what my response was based upon (should have mentioned that)..............
In my "kidhood" I hung out at the NYC Moraine yard south of Dayton Ohio. They were still using wood cabeese on the locals in 1963. IIRC, all the through frieghts were pulling steel cabooses.
That was interesting about the concrete floors. The Lackawanna built cabooses on old steam locomotive tender frames for use in pusher service. Notice how thick the underframe is.
http://cencalrails.railfan.net/stown7.jpg
I couldn't find a definitive answer, but Santa Fe wood cabooses 1300-1449 were being built by A.C.F. in 1923, and steel cabooses 1875-1978 were built by A.C.F. in 1930. Most of the numbers in between were filled by new construction between 1923 and 1929, but my info doesn't tell me which ones were wood and which were steel. Wood cars were rare and relegated to secondary service by the late 1950's on the Santa Fe.
Tom
Keep in mind that a wood caboose with a steel underframe was functionally the equivalent as an all-steel caboose when it came to pusher service. The Rio Grande built 20 wood cabooses with steel underframes in 1927, for instance. The documentation I refreshed my memory from didn't say anything about helper service being a factor, but I'm pretty certain it was.
Jim Eager's Rio Grande Color Guide notes the first of this design were built in 1913. Eight of them lasted into the 1960s in local service.
As a counterpoint, IIRC a few states had laws against pushing on the caboose, but I'm not sure whether it made any difference if it was steel or not legally speaking.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
B&O standardized on the I-1 and I-1a wooden caboose with a steel underframe between 1913 and 1923. The design was improved in the I-5 from 1924 to 1929, which included steel carbody ends. After that, new construction was all steel (except for some WWII era rebuilds from boxcars). The cars built after 1929 included the steel wagon top cabooses and other steel bay window designs. Even after the introduction of steel cars, B&O continued to use the I-1's and I-5's in mainline service. I-5's dominated the New Castle - Chicago mainline well into the 1960's. By then, many I-5's had been converted to I-5c for better ride quality by extending their wheelbase, beginning in 1949. Many others had been converted to I-5d by extending their wheelbase and adding concrete and scrap under the floor for greater weight, providing improved stability. These wood cabooses could be used ahead of pushers. Ohio law prohibited pushing behind an occupied caboose, so crew members rode the pusher engine in that State.
On the New York Central, some wood cabooses that were built with wooden underframes were retrofitted in later years with steel underframes, often lasting into the 1960s, by that time demoted to local service. I believe it was the same with some ancient Nickel Plate cabooses built in the early 1880s.
Victor A. Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana
Keep in mind that if the cabooses were only used on the home road, they weren't covered by the regulations regarding cars used in interchange. Freight cars in interchange service had to have steel underframes and couldn't have arch-bar trucks after about 1940. Some all-wood cabooses with trussrods and archbar trucks lasted a very long time after that some cases. Some CB&Q wood cabooses from the 1870's-80's lasted into the early days of BN.
I was called to work a urban local on the PRR in late 67 that had a N6B as it regularly assigned cabin. Fool thing was ready for the fire pit..That cabin was old,cold and drafty.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
wjstixKeep in mind that if the cabooses were only used on the home road
Not always. I once saw a train on the Southerm Pacific south of San Jose, CA. It consisted of several Rio Grande locomotives, a long string of Rio Grange hoppers, and a Rio Grande caboose. About 800 miles from Rio Grande rails, 35 years before the SP-Rio Grande merger. Don't remember the year , but it was in the early 1960's (I didn't have a drivers lisense, yet).
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Well, I didn't say cabooses didn't go off the home rails, due to various run-through agreements that was fairly common in the 1970's-80'2. What I said was that a caboose wasn't subject to the federal regulations regarding cars used in interchange service, such as the regulations forbidding arch-bar trucks, if the caboose was only used on it's owner's tracks.
That was true for any cars not used in interchange service. I recall reading (I think in Trains) about a company that made railroad ties. It had it's own railroad equipment for moving cars around their plant. The cars used archbar trucks, truss-rods with no steel reinforcement, and link-and-pin couplers...in the 1950's.
On the MP and T&NO in Louisiana, wood common until the mid 60s. I saw them.