Santa Fe steam loco paint scheme

[Trainman440]

Hi

I know that Santa Fe steamers usally have the all black and grey/white/silver(?) smokebox front. But recently, I've seen that almost all 2-10-4s had a black smokebox front. My question is, does most of the 4-8-4s also have black smokebox fronts(I know that #3751 doesn't!)?

Thanks

Charles

[7j43k]

Charles,

 

I just spent some time searching the subject on the ATSF Yahoo Group.  It appears that "it depends" is the easiest answer.  I recommend you join that group for further research (for a start, try the search term "aluminum smokebox", and go from there). 

 

There is, of course, a Santa Fe historical society.  I've been a member for several years.  I don't recall anything on the subject.  But it IS a subject of interest for them, so I also recommend joining and bugging them.

 

Good luck.  It's nice to get things like color on models correct.  And irritating when they turn out to be wrong.

 

Ed 

[mobilman44]

I agree with Ed.

While the ATSF may have had  protocols in place for painting smokeboxes or cab roofs at various times, there was no universal "rule" in place.  If you are looking at a specific loco, it may have had the same color smokebox thru its life, or more likely had it painting black or white or silver when it was shopped - which could have occured  a number of times in its life.

I've been a member of the ATSFM&HS for decades, and if you are interested in the RR, I urge you to join.  They have a wealth of information, and the quarterly mag alone is worth the price of admission.

[wjstix]

As I understand it, it didn't work to paint the smokebox and firebox, since they got very hot and the paint peeled off rather quickly. Instead railroads applied a mixture of oil and graphite, which gave those parts of the engine a silvery-gray color.

However, if the boiler jacketing extended over the smokebox, that could be painted, and was usually painted black like the boiler. I believe that's why say a New York Central Hudson didn't have a gray smokebox, since the smokebox was covered by the boiler jacketing. I assume there was something similar that covered the firebox on some engines so they could be painted black also, again like an NYC Hudson.

It could be that ATSF had some of both types; it also could be some engines started with the extra jacketing but later it was removed?

[UP 4-12-2]

Santa Fe 2-10-4's and 4-8-4's ALL had jacketing applied to the smokebox sides. For that reason, only the smokebox fronts were finished with oil & graphite. I am personally not aware of any images of in service engines where the smokebox jacketing was missing from the sides of these big Baldwin steamers. John

P.S. the only possible exception would be engine 3829, the very first "2-10-4" on any railroad, but really an ordinary 3800 class 2-10-2 with an experimental 4-wheel trailing truck placed under it.

P.P.S.  Even engine 3829 had jacketed smokebox (sides).