I am cleaning my large freight car roster somewhat by eliminating anything that is not to prototype. In that light, I have what I think is an MDC Flat Car that I need help with. The car number is UP 52190. The class shows as an F-100-12 which from my research is correct for that car series. My question is this: Were these cars ever painted Armour Yellow? The only pictures that I have found for that series appears to be boxcar red or something similar. (Examples are located at: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3082539 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=279048.)
Any help would be welcomed.
Those cars had/have cushion underframe, so they were likely painted yellow when they were new. And repainted brown later.
Ed
As a follow up, the car shows a new date of 8-77. Given that this was getting toward the end of the ACI era, were these cars ever equipped with ACI labels? As the above referenced pictures show a repaint, they are no help with that issue.
ACI went to about 1979. So these cars would have had them. Without a photo of this group of cars in their early days, it's hard to know for sure the exact placement--might find a similar car. If the sidesill is tall enough, the tag would have gone there. As opposed to a sheet metal mounting plate.
FRRYKid I am cleaning my large freight car roster somewhat by eliminating anything that is not to prototype. In that light, I have what I think is an MDC Flat Car that I need help with. The car number is UP 52190. The class shows as an F-100-12 which from my research is correct for that car series. My question is this: Were these cars ever painted Armour Yellow? The only pictures that I have found for that series appears to be boxcar red or something similar. (Examples are located at: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3082539 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=279048.) Any help would be welcomed.
I bought one of the Athearn yellow Union Pacific RTR 60' flat cars based on the MDC tooling last year - I believe the prototypes were manufactured by Thrall.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH97830
Here are links to the UP flat car index at RRpicturesarchives and two examples of the yellow flat car - one shows the ACI label on it.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsList.aspx?id=UP&cid=3
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=930808
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=658401
If I counted correctly the UP prototypes here have one or two extra stake pockets vs. the Athearn RTR HO model, but it's fairly darn close visually. Looks like a keeper to me. I picked up a couple other of this model too as they appeared to be fairly close visual matches to Missouri Pacific (brown) and Frisco (yellow) cars I found prototype photo's of. At least they make good stand-in's even though they aren't exact matches. Gotta remember their MDC origons. ;-) This as a part of my effort to field a variety of 50 and 60' flat cars. Tangent offers some nice 60' flat cars to mix in as well.
Variation number of stake pockets may be the main visible difference - same goes for the bulkhead flat cars based on the MDC tooling - nearly all of the models are visual stand-in's for a number of roads, as most of the prototypes the Athearn/MDC 60' bulkhead are painted for were longer than the model. I've collected a number of them to use as visual stand-in's for now. We really need a good 1970's accurate bulkhead in HO - although FYI, Wheels Of Time have an HO SP prototype coming next year - whoo hoo!
Hope this helps.
Cheers, Jim
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 Gotta remember their MDC origons. ;-)
Yup. If I recall this right, the MDC Thrall ~ish flatcars are essentially bogus and not a match for any specific prototype. They're kinda close for some, so they may be sufficient as place holders depending on how exact you want to be. I don't mind having a few around.
Rob Spangler
riogrande5761 Here are links to the UP flat car index at RRpicturesarchives and two examples of the yellow flat car - one shows the ACI label on it. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsList.aspx?id=UP&cid=3 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=930808 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=658401
I had used the UP flat car index already but I hadn't thought to check outside the number series in question. While the third link is not the same series of the car that I have, that shows me that both the yellow is accurate for the era I am looking at and it gives me a good idea as to where the put the ACI label.
riogrande5761 Variation number of stake pockets may be the main visible difference - same goes for the bulkhead flat cars based on the MDC tooling - nearly all of the models are visual stand-in's for a number of roads, as most of the prototypes the Athearn/MDC 60' bulkhead are painted for were longer than the model. I've collected a number of them to use as visual stand-in's for now. We really need a good 1970's accurate bulkhead in HO - although FYI, Wheels Of Time have an HO SP prototype coming next year - whoo hoo!
Ironically enough, I actually have a Trailer Train (TTPX) Bulkhead MDC (original) car that I also put in the pile to inspect for accuracy. (That was one of the first HO cars that I ever purchased. It had to have been purchased either when I was in 8th or 9th grade. [To tell how long ago that was, my 20th year high school reunion was the summer of 2014.])
Thank you to all the people who have helped me with this. It is always appreciated.
FRRYkid, I did notice the number series you mentioned was higher than those I found the yellow flat cars under - once you search in those numbers, they were brown flat cars. Athearns UP yellow paint do have lower numbers that are in the range of the yellow cars, at least the ones I linked.
wp8thsub riogrande5761 Gotta remember their MDC origons. ;-) Yup. If I recall this right, the MDC Thrall ~ish flatcars are essentially bogus and not a match for any specific prototype. They're kinda close for some, so they may be sufficient as place holders depending on how exact you want to be. I don't mind having a few around.
I only have a few but they look visually decent as stand-in's for the prototypes I matched up to - hard to say if any company will ever offer more accurate replacements. I think even SP had some similar looking ones, perhaps acquired 2nd hand. A lot of flat cars are fishbelly in profile like the GSC flats Tangent and ER (also Walthers) offer. WOT is going to offer a 62' flat too along with the bulkheads - I'm really excited about those.
FRRYKidIronically enough, I actually have a Trailer Train (TTPX) Bulkhead MDC (original) car that I also put in the pile to inspect for accuracy. (That was one of the first HO cars that I ever purchased. It had to have been purchased either when I was in 8th or 9th grade.
You may find, as I did, that many of the cars you purchased way back when are fanstasy cars - I've sold most of mine off after getting some good references to go over my collection some years back.
The MDC Trailer Train bulkhead is off - the length and number of stake pockets is the biggest difference between the model and some of the prototypes it is painted for. The Trailer Train bulkhead is reportedly 68' so much longer than the model.
Comment lifted from TrainOrders: "MDC bulkhead has a inside length of 56' or so... which matches quite a few BN cars built by Thrall. Maybe UP as well? SSW's fleet was 61' or so inside the bulkheads. WP and MILW also had Thrall bulkheads."
Basically those are mostly the road names I've gotten them in as stand-in's - although the BN seems closest to the prototype, the other bulkheads are shorter than the roads they represent. So the MDC/Athearn TT bulkhead is again, only a stand-in and it depends on your taste for how "off" you are willing to be. We could really use some accurate 70's era bulkheads - so WOT has the opening salvo with the 62' Gunderson bulkheads next year.
We run a club layout with lots of relatively inexpensive Athearn, Roundhouse, Walthers and other cars. Some of them get upgraded with better grabs and ladders. The known cars that don't match any real-world prototype get painted in the colors of the club's fictional home road -- no one yet has walked in with photographic evidence that the cars are unprototypical. They blend in pretty well with our cars that actually are proto-correct.
Graham Line We run a club layout with lots of relatively inexpensive Athearn, Roundhouse, Walthers and other cars. Some of them get upgraded with better grabs and ladders. The known cars that don't match any real-world prototype get painted in the colors of the club's fictional home road -- no one yet has walked in with photographic evidence that the cars are unprototypical.
We run a club layout with lots of relatively inexpensive Athearn, Roundhouse, Walthers and other cars. Some of them get upgraded with better grabs and ladders. The known cars that don't match any real-world prototype get painted in the colors of the club's fictional home road -- no one yet has walked in with photographic evidence that the cars are unprototypical.
How can they when they are fictional eh? Stack the deck! Thats one creative way to deal with the foobies! =D
riogrande5761 FRRYkid, I did notice the number series you mentioned was higher than those I found the yellow flat cars under - once you search in those numbers, they were brown flat cars. Athearns UP yellow paint do have lower numbers that are in the range of the yellow cars, at least the ones I linked.
In the alternative, does anyone know if there are decal set(s) for that type of UP flats? I did a quick search of Microscale's site and stuck out.
riogrande5761 So the MDC/Athearn TT bulkhead is again, only a stand-in and it depends on your taste for how "off" you are willing to be. We could really use some accurate 70's era bulkheads - so WOT has the opening salvo with the 62' Gunderson bulkheads next year.
So the MDC/Athearn TT bulkhead is again, only a stand-in and it depends on your taste for how "off" you are willing to be. We could really use some accurate 70's era bulkheads - so WOT has the opening salvo with the 62' Gunderson bulkheads next year.
FRRYKid In the alternative, does anyone know if there are decal set(s) for that type of UP flats? I did a quick search of Microscale's site and stuck out.
These days it's more of a challenge to find decals so it may be a treasure hunt - I don't know the answer other than scour all the makers, Herald King, Microscale, Oddball and any others. Check Ebay, HOSwap, HOInterchange etc.
Given that I have had a major challenge finding flats of any kind that are accurate or at least visually close, I am willing to live with the errors on that car. (Besides which, it gives me something to show how long I have been a model railroader.)
Modelrailroading does involve different levels of compromise and where there is a lack of accurate model, stand-in's are sometimes necessary. In the ftat car wold and gondola's, there are ALOT of foobies on the market. For example the E&C shops 53' corregated gondola is only accurate for Missouri Pacific and successor RR' UP, most if not all other paint jobs are fantasy. For the Walthers kit 53' gondola, it is only accurate for a single class of 100 Southern Pacific gondola's, the D&RGW version I have is only a semi close stand in. The Walthers kit 62' mill gon is only accurage for I think BN and D&RGW - the rest fantasy.
Then you get back into the generic MDC freight cars made in the 1970's and you would be hard pressed to find an exact match for many of their models, box cars, especially. The 60' bulkhead flat is only close to the BN prototype, and the rest are just visual stand-in's but most are much longer. The 60' flat car, again, mostly semi close visual matchs to a number of roads that I've compared them too.
Now for flat cars, there is some good news. The Walthers 53' GSC kit flat cars match quite a few prototypes, and ExactRail has come out with 42 and 53' GSC flat cars are very nice and accurate for a number of prototypes. Tangent has their 60' GSC flat car is a nice accurate flat car. BTW, if youy to to tangent's website, they show actual prototype photo's for their freight cars so you can actually see they are copies of real prototypes! Tangent has come out with a lot of freight cars in the past several years and are quickly becoming one of my go-to HO freight car manufacturers, along with ExactRail, Intermountain and Athearn Genesis.
Red Caboose has made some 43' and 53' flat cars which are accurate for some roads - the 53' flat car is accurate for some 1950's built flat cars used into the 1970's and 80's to haul lumber. Then there are Proto 2000 53' flat cars - very nice - but you need to check them against prototypes - many are not exact matches but pretty close to a number of prototypes.
I've got several Proto 2000 and Red Caboose HO 53' flat cars, along with several of the Athearn/MDC stand-in's, a Tangent 60' and a bunch of Walthers GSC 53 footers. I plan on getting the WOT cars next year and a few ExactRail as I can afford to add a few - they are very sweet.
http://exactrail.com/collections/gsc-536-flat-cars/products/gsc-53-6-flat-car-43-3-truck-centers-atsf-1954-as-delivered
https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/product/up-original-1966-60-gsc-flatcar/
Before giving up on Microscale, I'd check out their 87-7. It appears to have a lot of what you need. If you find that the lettering on that sheet is too big ('cause you're working on a flat car), then perhaps the N scale one will work (60-7).
7j43k Before giving up on Microscale, I'd check out their 87-7. It appears to have a lot of what you need. If you find that the lettering on that sheet is too big ('cause you're working on a flat car), then perhaps the N scale one will work (60-7). Ed
I will take a look at that set. Even if it doesn't work for the flat cat, I have a boxcar in that scheme that needs a little on a couple of the graphics that this set has.
Just as an update, I have both the HO and N scale versions of that set ordered and should have them later this week. I have also come up with another question: When were the UP 52000 series (UP Class F-100-8) built? I am fairly sure that I will need to redo the dimensional data due to the fact that I have seen a picture from the series that was taken in August of 1977 but the new date on the car shows September. Any further help would be welcomed as usual.
The UP 52000 series is/was 52000-52099, Class F-100-008 built 1975. No month mentioned in my reference. The UP equipment diagram is dated August 12 of that year.
As a further follow-up, I have sent an e-mail to the UP Historical Society to see if they can help me further help me with the built date for the flats.
Secondly, I also received the decal sheets today. As I suspected, there was part of the HO sheet that works perfectly for the boxcar.
Unfortunately, another problem has cropped up: There are no dimensional decals in that sheet. What I need is to find decals for the "F-100-008" class numbers as well as decals that I can use for the built date on the car. If needed I can improvise the class numbers from the sheets I have but the built date is not as the type on the sheets are the wrong font. I also won't mind having a few numbers that I could use on the box car to match a picture appropriate for my era.
Any ideas any one has for this problem would be welcomed.
Go to the Microscale website. Do the pulldown on the left and click on "Data". It's full of neat stuff, much of which I never knew about until just now. BUT. Note 87-2--freight car data Gothic. That may well hold the bits you will need. If not, there are many other decal sheets to harvest.
I built a flatcar, once. There was not a "drop-on" decal set for it (being a one-off heavy duty car). There are 99 separate decals on it. For a FLAT CAR. But it is absolutely correct. It can be done.
7j43k Go to the Microscale website. Do the pulldown on the left and click on "Data". It's full of neat stuff, much of which I never knew about until just now. BUT. Note 87-2--freight car data Gothic. That may well hold the bits you will need. If not, there are many other decal sheets to harvest. I built a flatcar, once. There was not a "drop-on" decal set for it (being a one-off heavy duty car). There are 99 separate decals on it. For a FLAT CAR. But it is absolutely correct. It can be done. Ed
I hadn't thought about the generic data sets such as that. I will put it in the pile to order.
Your flat car project reminds me of another project I have going at the moment: some BN Thrall Gons. I have no idea how many different decal pieces I have used on each car. The cars used 4 different types of decal sheets. I am just waiting on a little more info to finish those cars.
One more question: almost "yellow cars" of UP in 70 and 80's had silver trucks, Did these flats have this colored trucks?
Tonatiuh One more question: almost "yellow cars" of UP in 70 and 80's had silver trucks, Did these flats have this colored trucks?
From Stagner and Yanosey's "UP Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment",
It appears that the yellow flats GENERALLY had mineral red trucks. There were some with aluminum trucks. And an awful lot of them had yellow overspray on the trucks.
The photos in this book are all official UP photos, and tend to show cars as new.
7j43k Tonatiuh One more question: almost "yellow cars" of UP in 70 and 80's had silver trucks, Did these flats have this colored trucks? From Stagner and Yanosey's "UP Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment", It appears that the yellow flats GENERALLY had mineral red trucks. There were some with aluminum trucks. And an awful lot of them had yellow overspray on the trucks. The photos in this book are all official UP photos, and tend to show cars as new. Ed
Esteban Tonatiuh
Mexico City
Something else I will need to add to my flat car. I am planning to do some more work on the car on Sunday on my day off.