What was UP's "main stay" passenger steam engine? I would here that challengers and Big Boys would do passenger service on occasion, but what engine did the majority of the passenger service for UP? Funny, you associate K-4's with PRR, Hudson's with NYC, Northerns with ATSF, J Classes with N&W, but I'm just not sure of UP. When I do run UP passenger cars, all I think of are the excursion trains of today with the 3985 and the 844. So I run those engines. Were they Northerns? 4-8-4's? To a lesser extent I'm also curious what B&O used.
Thanks
Joe C
You may associate Hudson's with NYC, but I associate Niagaras.
I say that because most railroads had more than one loco type that they used for passenger service.
That said, the UP used Northerns, Mountains, and Pacifics. Mostly. And also Challengers, as you noted. It also depends on the era. Choice of which loco type to use depended on availabililty and train load.
Ed
The previous answer pretty much fills the voids.UP owned a whole selection of locomotives specialized in either passenger or freight service,with some of them used on both types.
However,that I know of,Big Boy engines weren't used for passenger service.As powerful as they were,they were too slow for the purpose.
UP goes back a long way and passenger power followed a fairly normal progression from 4-4-0's to Ten Wheelers and Atlantics, ( 4-4-2's ). When E.H. Harriman took over around the turn of the last century, he introduced a series of "standard" designs which included larger examples of the types mentioned above plus classes of light and heavy Pacifics. With the introduction of steel coaches and longer trains in the 1920's a class of heavy Mountain types ( 4-8-2 ) was introduced and in the late 1930's various sub classes of Northerns arrived on the property culminating in the 800 class of which No. 844 is preserved operational. The Challengers were used as dual purpose locomotives and their main passenger assignments were in mountain territories as both helpers and road engines. To the end of steam Pacifics and Mountains were used on secondary passenger runs and on mail and express trains. They also served as "protection power" for the first generation of passenger diesels. Mass production models in HO include the Northern and the Challenger. BLI is bringing out a model of the UP Mountain. As for the others, you'll have to look for them in brass.
I've had the same interest and the (HO) version I lack are primarily the 4-6-2 pacific, plus the 4-4-2 Atlantic. These would complement my 4-8-4 and 4-8-2. I see that BLI has light and heavy USRA pacifics coming out "soon" (but not in UP), but I don't know if the UP had USRA versions or something close enough to letter one of the USRA unlettered versions with the appropriate UP logo and number. Many of the google image photos I think are of pre-USRA ones, and many have Vandy style tenders.
If I'm interpreting the following info correctly, 4-6-2s were purchased as late as 17 in 1919/1920, but many more were later retired, mostly built prior to the USRA period I'd guess. The last was retired in 1957.
http://utahrails.net/up-diesel-roster/up-diesel-roster-loco-chron-01.php
http://utahrails.net/up-diesel-roster/up-diesel-roster-loco-chron-02.php
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/pacific/?page=up#photos
http://utahrails.net/up/uprr-index.php
Looking at these links, I'm doubtful the any of the 81 USRA light pacifics built were bought by UP, and it seems the 20 USRA heavy pacifics all went to the Erie. Maybe someone will know for sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USRA_Light_Pacific
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USRA_standard
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/pacific/
The last link on pacifics indicates that UP had 52 built by Alco, 133 Baldwin and 26 Lima pacifics. Of course they may have purchased some pre-owned ones along the way.
Anyway, I hope to find an HO pacific that fits the UP roster reasonably (DCC or readily convertible). An atlantic is likely more of a stretch.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
The questions can't be answered without reference to the time period and specific locations that interest you. Others have answered the U.P. question fairly well (No, the U.P. never had a U.S.R.A. Pacific), but nobody has addressed the B&O.
For the most part, the B&O was a Mikado/Pacific railroad on most of its lines during the period from the 1910's to the end of steam. In the mountains and on lines with heavy mainline coal traffic, Articulateds and 2-10-2's were used on freight. Pacifics were the B&O's primary passenger power, often doubleheaded on heavy trains. B&O rebuilt two 2-10-2's into 4-8-2's for mountain passenger helper service in the 1920's, and they built two large experimental passenger 4-8-2's and an experimental 4-4-4-4 Duplex for mainline passenger service in the 1930's; but the lion's share of passenger work was done by seventy P-1aa, P-1b, P-1c, and P-1d 4-6-2's from the 1920's until the end of steam. Thirty P-5 (U.S.R.A. light 4-6-2) and fifteen P-6 (modified copies of the U.S.R.A. light 4-6-2) arrived in the late 'teens and early 1920's. Around the 1940's, the P-5's and P-6's became identified as western engines, while the P-1's were concentrated in the mountains, with some straying into the flatlands. Twenty one P-7 "President" Pacifics started to arrive in 1927, and they tended to stay in the area east of Cumberland, MD until the post WWII period. Then they started migrating west to Ohio. These were the dominant steam types until the 1950's. During the 1940's, forty T-3 4-8-2's were built using parts from P-1 Pacifics and Q-1 Mikados. These were primarily used as freight engines on the relatively level western lines; but they were used as passenger engines in the mountains as well.
B&O began dieselization rather early with EA/EB combinations on the Capitol Limited and National Limited in the late 1930's. Other major trains were gradually dieselized as B&O acquired E6's (early 1940's), E7's and F3's (late 1940's), and E8's and E9's (early 1950's). As dieselization advanced, the Pacifics were gradually retired, with the last being taken out of service around 1957.
This is a very general and incomplete rundown. If you need info regarding passenger motive power on a particular B&O Division, or during a particular time period, or for a particular train, then I (or somebody else) might be able to give a more specific answer. For example, the ex-BR&P line used ex-BR&P 4-6-2's of classes P-17, P-18, and P-19 until the 1950's, when P-5's and P-6's took over. Also, some of the lesser-known classes (P-3 and P-4, for example) were mostly used in commuter service in the Baltimore and Washington DC area.
Tom
UP did roster a small sample of the 0-6-0 and 2-8-2's purchased from the the USRA at bargin prices due to broken frames! UP continued to improve and update these over they ensuing years where by the end of steam operations their USRA orgins were completely erased, there seemed to be fondness for large tenders among this class as well.
Several aquired massive surplus C&O 12 wheel tenders from war baby 2-8-8-2's many aquired the unique to UP Sweeny stacks,cast frames,delta trailing trucks and solid main drivers. UP did not devote such lavish efforts to upgrading the modest USRA 0-6-0 fleet, all lost their coal pushers and metal tender shields in the thrities.
Dave
As stated before, the UP bought some USRA design 0-6-0s and 2-8-2s. The UP 4-6-2s served long and hard but they were "Harriman" design Pacifics with similar designs appearing on the SP and IC. They were a lot different than a USRA 4-6-2 (which was basically a NYC design).
UP bought up-to-date steam power for their passenger trains, then demoted older power to secondary trains or branches. For instance the arrival of the 4-8-4s bumped most of the 4-8-2 fleet off 1st class trains and onto secondary trains. The arrival of quantities of diesels bumped the 4-8-4s off primary trains and onto secondary trains, so the 4-8-2s were in turn bumped down to branch trains or even freights. 4-8-2s ended their carreers on the North Platte Branch or on Kansas Division local runs and freights. 4-6-2s ended up on local passenger or mixed trains. So yo have to be quite specific on the year and the type of train(s) that you are interested in.
If you are an HO guy, I note that Mantua made some UP "Collectible" series pacifics such as the Ebay item following, a 1920 Baldwin. Note you can read about the prototype on the certificate in one of the photos. Can anyone comment on the conversion of these to DCC; e.g., motor suitability (high current draw?), motor isolation, etc? These might look ok with some help by a repaint and/or weathering.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-MANTUA-COLLECTIBLES-4-6-2-PACIFIC-W-VANDY-TENDER-UNION-PACIFIC-/291312122345?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item43d38e39e9
The next one is a regular series Mantua, with rectangular tender. I don't know if this is less prototypical than the collector series.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Scale-MANTUA-Union-Pacific-4-6-2-Steamer-Tender-RD-4073-/151489584297?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item23457b9ca9
peahrens If you are an HO guy, I note that Mantua made some UP "Collectible" series pacifics such as the Ebay item following, a 1920 Baldwin. Note you can read about the prototype on the certificate in one of the photos. Can anyone comment on the conversion of these to DCC; e.g., motor suitability (high current draw?), motor isolation, etc? These might look ok with some help by a repaint and/or weathering. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-MANTUA-COLLECTIBLES-4-6-2-PACIFIC-W-VANDY-TENDER-UNION-PACIFIC-/291312122345?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item43d38e39e9 The next one is a regular series Mantua, with rectangular tender. I don't know if this is less prototypical than the collector series. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Scale-MANTUA-Union-Pacific-4-6-2-Steamer-Tender-RD-4073-/151489584297?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item23457b9ca9
Comment from a non B&O modeler (me):
Those locomotives will ALWAYS be B&O Pacifics.
It's those funny boxes on the sides of the sand domes. Long ago, I freelanced a 4-6-2 from the Mantua loco, and thought long and hard about how to (successfully) remove those definitive lumps--too difficult. I did add a Belpaire firebox, though.
It would sure be nice to see some good models of either the light or heavy UP Pacifics, though. I have the impression that they'd also be useful for SP. Athearn, are you listening???????