Something I'm wondering if there is any truth in!I've just read on another forum that some roads (or maybe one, I don't know) have been replacing EMD prime movers with Cummins power!This all sounds like heresay to me as I thought the only power to use Cummins prime movers were the Genset switchers?I also read somewhere that an SD70 was to be repowered using a big Cummins engine as some sort of test bed.I know there's been the odd one off conversions of GP40's that were repowered using Cat engines.I also seem to remember NS re powering some units using MTU 2000V prime movers aswel.Any info guys?
This article is about repowering an SD90 for the Indiana Railroad: http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/mechanical/locomotives/cummins-unveils-qsk95-tier-4-engine-indr-is-first-customer.html
This article,dated Sep 12, 2014, is about passenger locomotives. No mention of SD70's http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/mechanical/locomotives/cummins-says-its-on-top-of-tier-4.html?channel=35
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Thanks fella, just what I was after!!
Yeah, interesting stuff. I used to work in heavy truck fleet maintenance in a previous career. Cummins was highly regarded for good reason in the shop. Being the guy that maintained the repair records, the basic reliability of the Cummins is hard to beat. The only problems we ever had were with the 6BTs, which powered our yard tractors and were throughly abused virtually 24/7/363 by high speed revving to lift and lug loaded trailers around the lot. People weren't unhappy with the need to repair, more amazed at how long they last under such unremitting hard use.
Tier 4 stuff was all pretty much still on the drawing board back then as the trucking interests fought Tier 4 for a time before it came into effect for OTR diesel vehicles, so no personal experience as this has happened since I left the industry.
It's a urea-based system, where a small amount of fluid is injected into the exhaust. RRs have been leery of it because of that. However, this technology permits the new standards to be met with minimal changes inside the engine. This results in a more reliable system according to Cummins. It's also one that has seen wide use and proven successful. For instance, it's used on the Cummins diesels in Dodge pickups since 2007. Unlike the competition, Cummins has a really good idea of the long term reliability and costs of SCR.
The only real drawback to such as system, besides the routine need to store and dispense it being added, is does this stuff freeze during cold weather?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Well Mike, aint that funny, i was also a truck mechanic in the UK for a time durring the early 90's, I have also now left the industry. Back then, all this emissions stuff was un heard of! We used to run alot of Cummins "L10" motor's, basicly 10 litre, straight six. They were industructable!! The urea based systems are wide spread on trucks in the whole of europe but I didn't realise it was being used in the QSK 95 in the SD90!! One thing where I can see it falling down is having to instal all the infrastructure every few hundred miles to refill the system along the track?
I drive a big truck at work that uses the urea based system. Its called "Adblue".As you rightly point out, a very small amount is injected into the exhaust stream after the turbo and this cuts down the emmisions. The stuff looks and feels like water and has no smell but when it dries out, like an empty container of it, it smells like pee LOL. I dont think it freezes- I may try it one day when it gets real cold and see if it does.
Gary UK One thing where I can see it falling down is having to instal all the infrastructure every few hundred miles to refill the system along the track?
One thing where I can see it falling down is having to instal all the infrastructure every few hundred miles to refill the system along the track?
Gotta think North American, they would put a tank on that would last about 1000 miles to match the fuel tank.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Water urea solutions have very low freezing point. In fact you can take solid urea and mix with water and get a solution temperature pretty close to zero degrees Centigrade. I think some of the sports injury cooling pacts use urea water technology. Urea injection is used to reduce NOX emissions from power plants and diesel engines.
Urea was used in place of salt as a biodegradable snow melt substance on an Illinois airbase in the 70s. It is a major ingredient in human urine (the name similarity is NOT a coincidence!) and as a result the roads where it was used smelled like an ill-maintained rest room.
I wonder what the rail ROW will smell like when it's in common use.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
The Knoxville Locomotive Works is repowering locomotives but not with Cummns. Here is a link to their website. Just thought you might like to see what is out there.
-Bob
http://goklw.com/
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
OK, good to know about urea. I kinda knew what it was. Glad to hear it's not too obnoxious in this application. I doubt anyone will be able to smell it in the small quantities used with diesel. Yep, fill points at the usual locations.
And it has a low freezing point. Hmm, anywhere near an idling diesel should be warm... so I suspect it's not too big a deal.
mlehman OK, good to know about urea. I kinda knew what it was. Glad to hear it's not too obnoxious in this application. I doubt anyone will be able to smell it in the small quantities used with diesel. Yep, fill points at the usual locations. And it has a low freezing point. Hmm, anywhere near an idling diesel should be warm... so I suspect it's not too big a deal.
Unless the diesel has been turn off for awhile, like over the weekend. If your diesels are in constant use, and always idling, yes that theory would work, but locomotives that are only used when extra power is needed would be te same as the external temperature.
KyleUnless the diesel has been turn off for awhile, like over the weekend. If your diesels are in constant use, and always idling, yes that theory would work, but locomotives that are only used when extra power is needed would be te same as the external temperature.
Those using diesel power are already concious of the issues of cold weather. In the past, diesel locomtoves are kept running during cold weather for several reasons. One, it's hard to start a big diesel when it's cold. Two, fuel tends to gel, so a warm loco helps keep that at bay (over the road trucks use tank heaters, I'm not sure if RRs do.) Third and most important of all, diesels typiclaly do not have anti-freeze protection. A diesel MUST be kept running or you have to dump the cooling water. Then it won't start for awhile, that's for sure.
More recently and in connection with other changes, like fuel cost and pollutants becoming issues, RRs try to minimize idling. But anti-freeze is still generlaly considered too expensive in the quantities needed for locos.
My concern about urea was tied into the fact it very well may be installed in diesels with cold weather auto start capability. By starting a loco periodically a computer can keep it warm without excess idling. But a urea tank will not have the mass of fuel tanks or cooling systems, but of it is resistant to freezing as people indicate, it's good. And you'd have a hazmat spill most likely if you dumped it.
mlehman My concern about urea was tied into the fact it very well may be installed in diesels with cold weather auto start capability. By starting a loco periodically a computer can keep it warm without excess idling. But a urea tank will not have the mass of fuel tanks or cooling systems, but of it is resistant to freezing as people indicate, it's good. And you'd have a hazmat spill most likely if you dumped it.
Not to worry, Mike. Urea is not hazmat. It's used as fertilizer and in animal feed, and is not considered hazardous to pregnant women.
A small urea spill would be about equivalent to a large canine relieving itself. No big deal.
Chuck
tomikawaTT Urea...... is a major ingredient in human urine (the name similarity is NOT a coincidence!)
Urea...... is a major ingredient in human urine (the name similarity is NOT a coincidence!)
So would the emergency backup be a couple of sixpacks for the crew?
More like a couple of cases if they were former NYC.
Charlie