I am in need of forum help again. What I am looking for are reasonable HO facsimiles of heavyweight sleepers in the "Chief" series, which are plan 3973a, 10-1-1s and coaches (I have no idea which kind would be proper) for a project.
I am planning to use them to represent the HW coaches (which ran forward of the diner car) and HW sleepers (that ran behind the diner car) ran as part of the NCL around August of 1947.
I found and bought a pair of sleepers {edit: IHC 8-1-2s) I thought would work as the Chiefs but after a little more research, they would need to be kitbashed together in order to produce 1 proper car. (edit: From what I can tell from the diagram I have, the two sides are mirror images of each other, which is not the way the car is produced. If that is not correct please let me know.) If I can't find anything else, I can do the bash but, if possible, I would like to get the HW cars as close to RTR as possible.
Any help the forums can provide would be welcomed.
withdrawn
As I mentioned in my original post, they are being used as overflow cars to represent when the NCL got busy during the tourist season and during Christmas.
Edit: I found the referenced Atlas/Branchline Coach and I wasn't anticipacting spending that much on one car at one time.
withdrawn and best wishes
I didn't put the cost note in the original post. I probably should have but I didn't think about it at the time.
In looking at pictures of a 10-1-2 car, the windows on the 8-1-2 cars I have look close enough that I might be able to KB them to a 10-1-1. I have a diagram that shows the layout of the windows on the side with the smoking room/Lavatory side. I think that I can remove a window and insert one set of New England Rail Service paired windows on the smoking room side to make the 10 sections. The other 3 windows on that side look to be in the right places. The rivet counters may yell but to me it will look close.
Unfortunately the drawing I have only has a view of the windows on the drawing room, compartment and the women's lounge side from the top. I think I need the view from the side. IMHO, that looks to be the area on the opposite side where the windows are different. Again, I think NERS windows will solve the problem. I will just need to figure out which ones.
Follow up:
In further research, I think I have figured out how to modify my 8-1-2s to become the 10-1-1s I need. I still am stumped as to what the right kind of coaches I would need. As already mentioned, I am trying to keep this on a budget.
With your budget considerations in mind, what about the old Rivarossi 12-1 Pullmans? While I've read of all sorts of reasons why they're no longer considered to be an accurate model of anything, they can still be made into an impressive looking stand-in for cars otherwise unavailable or at least not so at a reasonable cost. The New England Rail Services window sections to which you referred will allow you to reconfigure the car sides as needed. They also offer underbody details and more are available from PSC (in brass or plastic) if you wish to create an even more detailed underbody. NERS also offers the air conditioning ducts, but it's not that difficult to create your own using .010" sheet styrene. The cars shown below are free-lanced conversions of the 12-1 into coaches, but I followed the Mainline Modeler series on Pullman cars to add underbody details using the parts mentioned, along with scratchbuilt parts.
Of the revenue passenger cars, only this coach/solarium used the replacement window sections:
I did alter some of the windows on this observation-turned-business-car:
The underbodies for many of these cars utilise Evergreen square tubing as the basis for the battery boxes, and most of the APWS tanks were scratchbuilt from sheet and strip styrene. I did use many of the PSC brake and electrical system components, but the slack adjusters and air tanks are mostly homemade, and the generator drive belts are made from brass shimstock. Vapour traps are suitably-sized finishing nails.
That is an interesting option. I can get 12-1s from IHC if I can't find the Rivarossi cars. However I don't feel the need to detail the undercarriage as these models won't be handled by most peopl.
The other thought that I had for my coaches as an RTR is an IHC HW Coach Car. The only problem is that I don't know if the window arrangement is correct for what the NP actually used. Given that the NP didn't use 8-1-2s like IHC sells (easily fixed to 10-1-1s as already mentioned), I don't trust that the car is correct as I have been unable to find any pictures that would show me window configuration on said NP coaches. (However, the 12-1s that they also sell is a car that the NP did use however. Given where this train will be used, I want to get everything that people will see as accurate as possible.)
I'm finishing up a couple of Rivarossi 12-1 Pullmans now. Note that the AHM/Rivarossi cars are NOT the same as the IHC cars. The old AHM/Rivarossi ones are better IMHO, they tend to ride much better and look better too. The IHC cars have nice interiors, but many of the later production runs of AHM/Riv cars had one piece interior inserts that can easily be painted to make them look quite nice.
Keep in mind that in 1947 the sleepers would have still been Pullman cars IIRC - that is, dark green cars owned and operated by Pullman, with "PULLMAN" on the letterboard. Although NP may have normally worked out with Pullman to use a particular kind of Pullman on the NCL, it's possible other cars could have substituted.
Keep in mind too that if you took a 12-1 Pullman and decorated it for a 10-1-1 car, only one in a thousand people would ever notice the difference....
wjstix I'm finishing up a couple of Rivarossi 12-1 Pullmans now. Note that the AHM/Rivarossi cars are NOT the same as the IHC cars. The old AHM/Rivarossi ones are better IMHO, they tend to ride much better and look better too. The IHC cars have nice interiors, but many of the later production runs of AHM/Riv cars had one piece interior inserts that can easily be painted to make them look quite nice.
Given that I already have the IHC 8-1-2s, I might as well use them and from the diagram I have the conversion is fairly easy. For the rest of the cars I am doing, I was not planning to put interiors in them anyway, so putting interiors in just these cars would be be superfluous.
wjstix Keep in mind that in 1947 the sleepers would have still been Pullman cars IIRC - that is, dark green cars owned and operated by Pullman, with "PULLMAN" on the letterboard.
Keep in mind that in 1947 the sleepers would have still been Pullman cars IIRC - that is, dark green cars owned and operated by Pullman, with "PULLMAN" on the letterboard.
I will admit somehow I missed seeing that. By moving a year further forward (which would still be in the proper range for my engine set [the set number that I plan to use is valid in its F3 A-B-B configuration until Sept. 1949 according to the June 1988 Model Railroader Paint Shop]), I could have the 10-1-1s in NP colors. (I have a list of the 25 10-1-1 named cars that the NP purchased from Pullman in 1948 and repainted them.)
wjstix Although NP may have normally worked out with Pullman to use a particular kind of Pullman on the NCL, it's possible other cars could have substituted.
Although NP may have normally worked out with Pullman to use a particular kind of Pullman on the NCL, it's possible other cars could have substituted.
I have a copy of The Mainstreeter Vol. 11, No. 3 (which is the maganize of the Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association) that discussed the 10-1-1 Chief series. According to that article, those cars were basically dedicated to service on the NP before the NP purchased them.
Don't know if this would help, but maybe Brass Car Sides (or someone else) might have something that would help you?? They're thin brass overlays you put on top of an existing car to make it into something else.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?manu=173&split=30&scale=H&keywords=northern+pacific&words=restrict
Brass Car Sides only has the sides for the streamline cars for the NCL. I have managed to get all of the sides needed for the pre-dome train. (The SL sleeper sides are due to arrive to me sometime in August.) Mr. Dennis Henry, who is the Owner and General Manager, has been a joy to work with in guiding me in getting the sides that I needed.