Prototype operations--Era--last 10 years more or less.
Not locomotives but Boxcars, Tanks, Gondolas, Hoppers etc.
Example: One RR, maybe a shortline or class 1, buys used freight cars from a class 1 with the original class 1 logo & marking still painted on. Also buying used rolling stock, with original logos & marking from old "Fallen Flags" RR companies, like Rock Island, MKT, NYC, Pennsy etc.
Would the new owner, leave the old logo on and patch a spot like on a locomotive, or repaint the whole car with new marking?
Reason I ask is I have a lot of mixed HO RR rolling stock and I don't want to paint over classic RR markings.
I know, "It's my RR and I can do what I want", but, I'm trying to be as prototypical as possible.
A shortline would probably patch out the reporting marks to start with, and then later on repaint (if they plan to keep the freight car long term, and not sell it to some other railroad in a short time), particularly after heavy work being done on the car, or if the railroad is adopting a new paint scheme or just unifying their liveries.Exceptions abound, of course.
Many times used freight equipment is coming off of a lease. The actual owner is looking to lease it out again, or sell it off. Depending on the lease/sale, a full repaint or just new reporting marks will be done(all depends on the cost). If the class 1 ;owned' the equipment, the used car may be going through a broker.
Most of the 'contemperary' freight cars I have seen 'patched' are either cars that the class 1 no longer needs, or are short line lease cars that tend to get patched all the time. Years ago, a full repaint was sort of the norm. But today, I tend to see either austure plain box cars or just patch jobs. The big item is to get the air brakes/wheels inspected/certificed for interchange service.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Big Boy Forever,
You should find this site useful, when you decide to do your rolling stock:
http://modeltrains.about.com/od/Detailing-and-Weathering/ss/Modeling-Freight-Car-Data-Paint-Outs.htm
Take Care!
Frank
As far as I can tell, especially within the last 10 years, the railroads will do a great deal not to apply paint to a freight car, since apparently the environmental restrictions on that kind of painting are pretty burdensome. It appears that patching is being done more and more with color transfers and transfer lettering, so I would look to things like Micro Scale trim film to create rectangular patches like those being used on the prototype. I don't think decal manufacturers have woken up to the possibilities here -- why not bring out rectangular color patches and a large selection of reporting marks for the roads that lease cars from GE Rail Services?
The classic example of doing the least is when the C&NW bought some Norfolk & Western boxcars that had a big NW logo on the side. They simply squeezed in a C so it read CNW -- but the C was pushed almost to the very end of the car.
THe C&NW also bought many former Rock Island cars. I recall some Rock Island 40' boxcars where they left the Rock Island logo in place and just changed the reporting marks, perhaps because they sensed they'd only be using those cars for the grain rush and for not many years anyway. For newer boxcars and covered hoppers that had the big R Route Rock logo, in some cases they let it show but mostly they'd try painting it out with paint of a similar, but rarely identical shade, as the original car. And often the newly applied paint seemed less durable and would wear away, revealing the old logo and even the old reporting marks, in some cases resulting in a jumble of numbers. You still see some of those ex-RI cars now and then. Sometimes you can tell it is an old Route Rock car because the paint-out exactly follows the shape.
I think Model Die Casting, or perhaps Athearn, offered some of the ex-RI C&NW patchouts.
In theory all the railroad or car owner needs to care about is the reporting marks, not logos.
Dave Nelson
Big Boy Foreverlike Rock Island, MKT, NYC, Pennsy etc.
It's totally up to you, of course, but most (or all) examples of some of those "classic" liveries would have disappeared long before your modern-era shortline could have acquired them. For example, no PRR or NYC cars purchased after the 1968 creation of Penn Central, and any survivors would likely have been repainted for Penn Central or Conrail (or both successively) along the way. And your models may be older car types that haven’t been seen in the last ten years (having all been retired due to age).
Big Boy ForeverI'm trying to be as prototypical as possible.
So given that you are already making some plausibility compromises, which is fine, you can pretty much do anything you like. A web image search for “boxcar new reporting marks” (or hopper, or whatever), yields lots of paint-out examples, such as these.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
The new railroad would be required to put on it's reporting marks and car number (they could use the old number, if they didn't have a car with that number, or create a new number). The reporting marks are the legal 'name' of the car. Except for the dimensional data, everything else is decoration. So if the AB&C railroad bought an old Conrail boxcar with a huge Conrail logo and lettering, as long as they painted over the Conrail reporting marks and added their own "ABC 74545" reporting marks, the car would be properly identified as being car 74545 of the AB&C RR. The big "CONRAIL" lettering wouldn't matter.
A lot of those patch jobs are temporary and will last until the car is cycled through the home car shop or a contract car repair shop like Transco Railway Products.They will exit either shop looking like a brand new car.
Also leasing companies will buy these cars and then lease them to various railroads-this now includes 50',53' and 60' boxcars.
A short line will more then likely just lease the needed cars or request the needed cars from their class one partner.
However.
If they do buy use cars the stronger short lines will repaint them with simple lettering like TOE,ASRY,AOK,MMID and other like short lines..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
wjstix The new railroad would be required to put on it's reporting marks and car number (they could use the old number, if they didn't have a car with that number, or create a new number). The reporting marks are the legal 'name' of the car. Except for the dimensional data, everything else is decoration. So if the AB&C railroad bought an old Conrail boxcar with a huge Conrail logo and lettering, as long as they painted over the Conrail reporting marks and added their own "ABC 74545" reporting marks, the car would be properly identified as being car 74545 of the AB&C RR. The big "CONRAIL" lettering wouldn't matter.
So if "ABC" RR bought a Conrail boxcar with the number 74545, they could just use that number and add ABC to the number to get, "ABC74545" as the new reporting mark, and ignore the Conrail logo; CORRECT???
cuyama Big Boy Forever like Rock Island, MKT, NYC, Pennsy etc. It's totally up to you, of course, but most (or all) examples of some of those "classic" liveries would have disappeared long before your modern-era shortline could have acquired them. For example, no PRR or NYC cars purchased after the 1968 creation of Penn Central, and any survivors would likely have been repainted for Penn Central or Conrail (or both successively) along the way. And your models may be older car types that haven’t been seen in the last ten years (having all been retired due to age). Big Boy Forever I'm trying to be as prototypical as possible. So given that you are already making some plausibility compromises, which is fine, you can pretty much do anything you like. A web image search for “boxcar new reporting marks” (or hopper, or whatever), yields lots of paint-out examples, such as these.
Big Boy Forever like Rock Island, MKT, NYC, Pennsy etc.
Big Boy Forever I'm trying to be as prototypical as possible.
Well, maybe those style box cars, tanks or whatever, are mechanically obsolete or too old or haven't been seen in decades, so what can a Model RR CEO do....scrap them and buy some newer Athearn RTR boxcars? That does not seem economically plausible or cost effective to stay in business. (LOL)
Maybe this shortline wants to use these old, obsolete, decrepit cars anyway, or would this shortline get in trouble with the government agencies? (ha ha)
Big Boy ForeverMaybe this shortline wants to use these old, obsolete, decrepit cars anyway, or would this shortline get in trouble with the government agencies?
In real life, obsolete cars cannot be interchanged with other railroads by law, so they aren't very useful except as maintenance-of-way equipment or if both shipper and receiver are on your shortline.
In your world, do what you like.
I've seen some faded CR cars where PC was poking though but,one could tell these cars( 50' gondolas) went through a rebuild program.
I've sen the same for older C&O covered hopper-faded CSX with C&O for progress showing.
However..
These cars are extremely rare birds.
Big Boy Forever So if "ABC" RR bought a Conrail boxcar with the number 74545, they could just use that number and add ABC to the number to get, "ABC74545" as the new reporting mark, and ignore the Conrail logo; CORRECT???
Correct.
In most cases they will renumber it to what ever series fits in with the shortline's numbering series and not keept he original owner's reporting marks.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Just look at an ex GVSR boxcar or any freight car with its blue color and red, yellow stack squares being renumbered in SP, SSW marking.
Same thing with CSX in the late 1980s Chessie System, Family Lines, etc. Some cars kept the old railroad designs and added their new reporting mark and many would be repainted.
It all the same 10 years ago or 60 years ago pictures and videos helps a lot.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
cuyama Big Boy Forever Maybe this shortline wants to use these old, obsolete, decrepit cars anyway, or would this shortline get in trouble with the government agencies? In real life, obsolete cars cannot be interchanged with other railroads by law, so they aren't very useful except as maintenance-of-way equipment or if both shipper and receiver are on your shortline. In your world, do what you like.
Big Boy Forever Maybe this shortline wants to use these old, obsolete, decrepit cars anyway, or would this shortline get in trouble with the government agencies?
So how can I tell if the HO boxcars I have are obsolete configurations within the past 10 years or so, (in the real world)?
Also other types, hoppers, gondolas, tanks, flats etc., other than the obvious very old boxcars with "ice doors" on the top, which I already am aware of.
I know, "it's my world", but like I said in the original post, I am trying to be as prototypical as possible. To me, that's more fun and enjoyable, although obviously some regulatory RR business protocols will not "scale down".
If you have modern freight cars that you bought 10 years chances are that they are modern.
Real world freight cars were made in the late 1968 through the mid 1980s still in service. Freight car change their identity once or twice in their lifetime, sometimes three (like the BNSF).
Boxcars: 50', 50'6",... etc.
Hopper cars: 90 ton, 100 ton and bethgon.
The very old reefer boxcars 1920s-1950s.
Cars generally have 40 year service life. On the sides of older cars there will be a tiny "BLT" or "NEW" with a date, on newer cars the BLT/NEW date will be in the consolidated stencil (black rectangle). If that date was more than 40 years before your modeling period the car is probably too old.
Say you are modeling 2010. If the BLT date is before 1-70 the car is proably too old.
Never mind.
The "BLT" date is the date the car was built, that isn't going to change. The last time the car was reweighed / reshopped it will have that date also. If the car was built recently, it will say "NEW" and have the same date as the "BLT" date. After the car goes into the shops, it will have the "NEW" replaced with a 2 to 4 letter code indicating where it was worked on (each railroad has their own code for their shops) and when. So a car that says "BLT 1-70" and "CHI 10-88" was built in January 1970, and was last shopped in the road's Chicago shops in October 1988.
Sometimes, that can give you at least an idea of what era the car's paint scheme is correct for, as a car having gotten a major rebuild or other extensive work would often be repainted into the railroad's latest scheme. For example I have an old Walthers woodside Minneapolis & St. Louis 40' boxcar that has a "BLT" date in I think 1920, but instead of a "NEW" date is says something like "MPLS 8-46" indicating the car was last shopped in Minneapolis in 1946...and indeed the car is wearing the then new M-St-L green with yellow lettering post-war paint scheme. So even though the car existed in the 1920-30's, it would be wrong for a layout set in that era, because of it's decoration.
To add to what Stix said I will add this.. I've seen cars with RBLT 10/90 then the location of the shop that rebuilt the car.I've see REBLT 5/88 UTLX Marion.
BRAKIE To add to what Stix said I will add this.. I've seen cars with RBLT 10/90 then the location of the shop that rebuilt the car.I've see REBLT 5/88 UTLX Marion.
Anyone have photos of these markings?
That is correct. Very few short lines or leasing companies care about what logos are on the car side anymore. They apply new initial and numbers to the sides, end, center sill and truck bolsters. Usually just a cheap patch job. Sometimes when the cars go to shop for a major overhaul they may go through a repaint, but that is not the norm.
Big Boy Forever BRAKIE To add to what Stix said I will add this.. I've seen cars with RBLT 10/90 then the location of the shop that rebuilt the car.I've see REBLT 5/88 UTLX Marion. Anyone have photos of these markings?
Probably most freight cars that have been around for a while will have that on it. In recent years it could represent a company, on many cars it would represent the city the railroad's shops are located that did the work. It's usually 3-4 letters, like "CHI" for Chicago, "MPLS" for Minneapolis, "LA" for Los Angeles etc.
So...probably the majority of freight car pictures around show cars that have the lettering on it; but, it's only like 1-2" high lettering toward the lower part of the car, so unless someone specifically took a picture of just that part of the car, it would be hard to read in a typical picture.
p.s. if you check model box cars, reefers etc. you'll probably find quite a few showing that lettering.
cuyama Big Boy Forever like Rock Island, MKT, NYC, Pennsy etc. It's totally up to you, of course, but most (or all) examples of some of those "classic" liveries would have disappeared long before your modern-era shortline could have acquired them. For example, no PRR or NYC cars purchased after the 1968 creation of Penn Central, and any survivors would likely have been repainted for Penn Central or Conrail (or both successively) along the way. And your models may be older car types that haven’t been seen in the last ten years (having all been retired due to age).
I used to see a jade green NYC coil car in captive duty (or bought second hand and never repainted at all, given that it wasn't leaving the property any time soon) at a steel mill in Western PA well past 2000. Haven't seen it in about six years. Maybe it disintegrated in a puff of rust-dust in a hard coupling.
Keep in mind a merger or purchase of one railroad by another is different than a railroad selling a car to another railroad. For example when Burlington Northern was created by merger in 1970, it not only owned it's own "BN" reporting marks, but also the reporting marks of the railroads that merged to create BN, like Great Northern (GN) and Northern Pacific (NP). There was no requirement that a GN car be relettered for BN; in fact, a few late sixties GN 'big sky blue' boxcars continued in regular service with original paint and "GN" reporting marks into the early 1990's.
In recent decades, it's even happened that a railroad has bought new cars but had them delivered using reporting marks from a prior railroad, one that maybe had merged out of existence 20 or 30 years ago. Around 1990 Chicago & NorthWestern bought some new coal cars that came lettered for CMO (Chicago St.Paul Minneapolis & Omaha) and MSTL (Minneapolis & St.Louis), railroads that hadn't existed since 1960 or earlier.