How do class 1 railroad companies determine the numbering sequence on their locomotives?
Smaller shortline RR companies also?
Also numbering 2nd hand locomotives; (exa. UP buys some NS SD-40s with NS numbers still on them).
Every railroad has their own system for numbering both locomotives and cars.
Generally by class of locomotives, a particular model will all be in a number series. Smaller roads may try to get the road number in the same series as the horsepower, but once you get over a couple thousand engines that becomes difficult. Railroads also renumber their engines after mergers, major locomotive aquisitions or retirements. Some roads number sequentially, some skip different number ranges. The Pennsylvania RR numbered its engines in the order they were built, so different classes would be scattered throughout the number sequences.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
It really does depend on the particular railroad.
One extremely recent example. UP 4014 pulling UPP 4014 (dead in tow) with UP 4884 leading the rest of the train. Union Pacific's management had to add the second P to the Big Boy's ID to keep from driving the rolling stock identification software into crashville.
PRR didn't assign specific classes to specific blocks of numbers until rather late in the game. The western roads did it from day one.
Taking the Virginia and Truckee as a typical shortline, locomotives were numbered in purchase sequence without regard to wheel arrangement.
My prototype cheated. The alpha(s) and first two numerics defined the class. Then locomotives were numbered in order of acquisition. Hence:
There was no particular sequencing to successive classes:
However, there really weren't many classes, just hundreds of locos in each class...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Big Boy Forever Smaller shortline RR companies also?
This isn't all shortlines, but several will keep the number the prior owner had.
Big Boy Forever Also numbering 2nd hand locomotives; (exa. UP buys some NS SD-40s with NS numbers still on them).
I can say for sure that NS does renumber its new units, especially those hastily (And hilariously) spray painted ex-HLCX SD40-2s
tomikawaTT It really does depend on the particular railroad. One extremely recent example. UP 4014 pulling UPP 4014 (dead in tow) with UP 4884 leading the rest of the train. Union Pacific's management had to add the second P to the Big Boy's ID to keep from driving the rolling stock identification software into crashville. PRR didn't assign specific classes to specific blocks of numbers until rather late in the game. The western roads did it from day one. Taking the Virginia and Truckee as a typical shortline, locomotives were numbered in purchase sequence without regard to wheel arrangement. My prototype cheated. The alpha(s) and first two numerics defined the class. Then locomotives were numbered in order of acquisition. Hence: ED161 (electric, 4 driving axles, low speed - a 2-Bo+Bo-2 catenary box motor.) Then ED162 through ED1618. DD13427 (diesel, 4 driving axles, low speed - a B-B center-cab diesel-hydraulic.) Sub-classes got blocks of numbers to identify modifications. D50283 (steam, 4 driving axles, tender - a 2-8-2.) All 380 D50s were originally identical. C11125 (steam, three driving axles, tank - a 2-6-4T with side and rear tanks.) 381 C11s were built, five are still in semi-regular operation pulling railfan/tourist specials. There was no particular sequencing to successive classes: C56, low drivered 2-6-0 with 6-wheel pedestal tender. C57, high-drivered 4-6-2 with 8-wheel 2-truck tender. C58, medium-drivered 2-6-2 with two-truck water bottom tender. However, there really weren't many classes, just hundreds of locos in each class... Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Big Boy 4014 is hardly an example.
That is all Public Relations and "Glamour" criteria for the hospital train to Cheyenne.
"4884" and "4014 diesels...gimme a break. That's not reality.
I liked it and am a Big Boy enthusiast all the way, with my camera deep into the details up close at Pomona Ca. NHRA parking lot, but the journey from LA to Cheyenne was all Public Relations. and sentimentality to gain public attention and Ed Dickens did a great job.
Now back to real RR locomotive numbering systems.
Welcome to 'Reality' - UP 4014 and 4884 are the actual road numbers for those two diesels! It was a good marketing move to pick up on that though! I suspect diesel 4014 will be renumbered sometime in the future to make room for operation of steamer 4014.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Big Boy Forever Big Boy 4014 is hardly an example. That is all Public Relations and "Glamour" criteria for the hospital train to Cheyenne. "4884" and "4014 diesels...gimme a break. That's not reality.
.... Actually it is. Those are the numbers of that series of engines. The 4000's.
UPP are the initials the UP uses for its passenger cars in the heritage fleet. So that is a "real" set of initials.
Those are real locomotive nubering systems.
PRR's numbering scheme was a bit more complex than mentioned above. In the early days of the 20th century, PRR assigned locomotives to particular geographic areas upon purchase. Each of PRR's many predecessor lines was assigned a number range. In general, the highest number series tended to be used on locos assigned to the lines west of Pittsburgh. There's no room (or need) to give a complete list, but engines of the Northern Central were numbered 4001 - 4191; Pittsburgh Fort Wayne & Chicago engines were numbered 7001 - 7500; Cleveland & Pittsburgh engines were 7601 - 7800, etc. Many engines were numbered for the parent company and tended to have lower numbers, although there were some exceptions. In general, engines were numbered in the order built, but numbers opened up as older engines were retired, and newer engines were given the vacated numbers. By about 1920, the number series seemed to be very disorganized because similar engines did not necessarily have similar numbers. The PRR stopped adhering strictly to this plan around the early 1920's. The road purchased 40 G5s 4-6-0's in early 1923 with scattered numbers, but the 50 G5s' built from August, 1923 on were in a solid block from 5700 - 5749. The road then bought 475 I1s 2-10-0's in a solid block running from 4225 to 4699, and the practice of assigning scattered numbers was essentially dead. Many of the engines with scattered numbers continued to serve the PRR well into the 1950's.
Most large railroads tended to group similar engines together for easy identification, and that practice generally continues today.
Historically, various small railroads have used the year of construction, builder's number, or other identifiers as the basis of their numbering schemes.
jrbernier Welcome to 'Reality' - UP 4014 and 4884 are the actual road numbers for those two diesels! It was a good marketing move to pick up on that though! I suspect diesel 4014 will be renumbered sometime in the future to make room for operation of steamer 4014. Jim
I know they are the real road numbers for those two diesels and that is why UP picked them.
Just about everything I said illustrated the "marketing scheme" of the hospital train and its public relations strategy with Ed Dickens at the forefront. That was my point that that scenario is not a good example of RR numbering system understanding, but more of a public relations stunt by UP.
While I will quickly admit that UP cherry-picked their fleet to get those numbers, they were there. Also, don't bet that UP will renumber that six-axle 4014. My bet is that they will retain the UPP heritage fleet reporting marks for the 4-8-8-4.
Chuck
[quote user="tomikawaTT"]
Look at UP 844, their never retired 4-8-4. When new diesels took over the 800 series slot, 844 gained an extra "4" and was #8444 for a long time during its excursion career. Once diesel 844 was retired, the 8444 became the 844 once again.
pajrr Look at UP 844, their never retired 4-8-4. When new diesels took over the 800 series slot, 844 gained an extra "4" and was #8444 for a long time during its excursion career. Once diesel 844 was retired, the 8444 became the 844 once again.
And this illustrates another obvious point - that number series are re-used over time.
When a series becomes vacant due to retirements or sell-offs, it can be re-used for new engines.
And sometimes existing series are re-numbered to make room for new engines to use that block as well.
All depends on the specific railroad, and can evolve over time.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Back when 844 acquired its temporary fourth digit UP didn't have any other sets of reporting marks to move it to.
While I have never seen it, it isn't impossible that three out of the four units in a BNSF consist running through Seligman, AZ, could have the same number. Of course, only one would be BNSF. The others could be NS, CN, CSX...)