Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Yards Big and Small

3757 views
17 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 372 posts
Yards Big and Small
Posted by Big Boy Forever on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 2:04 AM

 

Yards can be huge like Colton near me, where big Boy 4014 was for a few months, 5 miles long, big hump and many tracks. You got service tracks and facilities for locomotives and damaged cars, arrival tracks, departure tracks, baloon tracks, wyes, and in the past, caboose tracks, now obsolete, and other tracks on and on.

 

So here is a question for the train company operation scholars here:

Howabout small yards for Shortlines? What would be still considered a yard, but only have a few tracks?

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • 573 posts
Posted by pajrr on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 3:33 AM

The definition of a yard is an area with multiple tracks where cars are stored, sorted and loaded/unloaded without interfering with road operations. It is also a place where motive power is stored and serviced. A yard can be any size you want it to be.

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 5:39 AM

Big Boy Forever
Howabout small yards for Shortlines? What would be still considered a yard, but only have a few tracks?

Yes,a "yard" can be one  track on a short line.

One track?

Yuppers. I know of two short lines that uses a one track yard. One uses the old #2 main line as their yard track another uses a old passing track.Both short lines "engine house" is a active shipper's dock track lead.There's a electric box that contains a power cord for the locomotive's winter preheater.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 7,486 posts
Posted by ndbprr on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 6:26 AM
Yards serve one purpose in two ways both to sort cars. Big yards sort cars for big areas like major cities so whole blocks of cars can make up a train for that location. Small yards further divide those blocks to their final destination. A short line probably only needs one track to put the cars in order for delivery.
  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 2:32 PM

ndbprr
A short line probably only needs one track to put the cars in order for delivery.

In my life long study of short lines I found short lines vary.

The tiniest may not even have a yard while a moderate sized short line may have one 7 or 8 track yard plus a engine service area complete with a two stall engine house-think Pikestuff's 2 stall engine house..

Short lines are very fascinating and no two seems alike even if operated by the same short line operator like GWI or R.J.Corman. .

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 372 posts
Posted by Big Boy Forever on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 5:27 PM

I remember reading something by John Armstrong the famous model RR designer. He said that most model railroaders don't have the space to model a complete short line RR, let alone a class one. That's where I'm coming from, especially for a yard and some kind of a mainline operation with industries. Still, it would be nice to have some of the features of a yard, like classification, arrival departure, lead track, service tracks and whatever other aspects make up a yard.

If I hit the Lotto, I won't be asking questions like this.

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 5:56 PM

Big Boy Forever
That's where I'm coming from, especially for a yard and some kind of a mainline operation with industries. Still, it would be nice to have some of the features of a yard, like classification, arrival departure, lead track, service tracks and whatever other aspects make up a yard.

John Armstrong was mistaken since many of us have had a main line yard and industries on a loop layout..Many small club layout has the whole 9 yards as well.

If you wait and wait and wait and wait some more for that "dream layout" that fills a basement it may never come to pass..I call it "Dream the impossible dream".

So,use the space you have wisely even if it means you can't model the Rockies or the Appalachians.Model instead the items that will give you operations like a yard and industries.

You can model a complete small point to point short line on a "U" shape around three walls layout complete with a mixed train daily....Or a branch line of a major railroad that features a mixed train daily.

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 372 posts
Posted by Big Boy Forever on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 6:20 PM

BRAKIE
 
Big Boy Forever
That's where I'm coming from, especially for a yard and some kind of a mainline operation with industries. Still, it would be nice to have some of the features of a yard, like classification, arrival departure, lead track, service tracks and whatever other aspects make up a yard.

 

John Armstrong was mistaken since many of us have had a main line yard and industries on a loop layout..Many small club layout has the whole 9 yards as well.

If you wait and wait and wait and wait some more for that "dream layout" that fills a basement it may never come to pass..I call it "Dream the impossible dream".

So,use the space you have wisely even if it means you can't model the Rockies or the Appalachians.Model instead the items that will give you operations like a yard and industries.

You can model a complete small point to point short line on a "U" shape around three walls layout complete with a mixed train daily....Or a branch line of a major railroad that features a mixed train daily.

 

 

Good advice

I wasn't including Model RR clubs. One in my area has 5000 square feet of model railroad, so that's a different story.

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 7,486 posts
Posted by ndbprr on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:38 PM
Given a choice of a yard or engine terminal give me the yard any time no matter the size.
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
  • 4,387 posts
Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 8:08 PM

Big Boy Forever
I remember reading something by John Armstrong the famous model RR designer. He said that most model railroaders don't have the space to model a complete short line RR, let alone a class one.

BRAKIE
John Armstrong was mistaken since many of us have had a main line yard and industries on a loop layout

Brakie, your point has nothing to do with what the original poster said about Armstrong. Armstrong's basic premise is correct -- most modelers don't have room to model a full shortline, let alone a Class 1 -- so we have to pick vignettes and elements. Since dozens of Armstrong's track plans look exactly like you are describing, how could your example possibly prove Armstrong "wrong"?

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
  • 4,387 posts
Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 8:11 PM

Big Boy Forever
Still, it would be nice to have some of the features of a yard, like classification, arrival departure, lead track, service tracks and whatever other aspects make up a yard.

If you look closer at Armstong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation, you'll see how he combines those features into a relatively small amount of trackage in his example yards. Smaller railroads (real-life or model) don't necessarily have dedicated tracks for each of those functions.

  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 372 posts
Posted by Big Boy Forever on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 8:49 PM

cuyama
 
Big Boy Forever
Still, it would be nice to have some of the features of a yard, like classification, arrival departure, lead track, service tracks and whatever other aspects make up a yard.

 

If you look closer at Armstong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation, you'll see how he combines those features into a relatively small amount of trackage in his example yards. Smaller railroads (real-life or model) don't necessarily have dedicated tracks for each of those functions.

 

I have that book circa 1999 edition.

Can you tell me which plans you are refering to?

 

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 9:36 PM

cuyama
 
Big Boy Forever
I remember reading something by John Armstrong the famous model RR designer. He said that most model railroaders don't have the space to model a complete short line RR, let alone a class one.

 

 
BRAKIE
John Armstrong was mistaken since many of us have had a main line yard and industries on a loop layout

 

Brakie, your point has nothing to do with what the original poster said about Armstrong. Armstrong's basic premise is correct -- most modelers don't have room to model a full shortline, let alone a Class 1 -- so we have to pick vignettes and elements. Since dozens of Armstrong's track plans look exactly like you are describing, how could your example possibly prove Armstrong "wrong"?

 

Actually it does..

John was wrong period.

Of course I realize your lack of small short line  knowledge will be the real issue here--just like Johns.

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
  • 4,387 posts
Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 9:54 PM

Big Boy Forever
I have that book circa 1999 edition.

The page numbers changed with editions. In the Third Edition, have a look at the top yard in illustration 2-9 (page 26). This could be further simplified (depending on the situation on your layout) by eliminating the passenger siding and the caboose track (just park cabooses on the track that is labeled “runaround”). The double-ended tracks can be used for A/D and for classification. A longer switch lead than shown is handy if the main line will be very busy. 

If you are still talking about an isolated desert shortline, though, even that may be much more than you need. Or you may need a different arrangement to take into account the interchange pattern. It’s not possible to say for sure without seeing a track plan -- one size does not fit all when it comes to model railroad (and prototype!) yards.

Here is a similar small yard based on the same principles.

As others have noted, as little as only a track or two might serve as a yard for smaller shortlines. In some cases, the shortline might use the interchange tracks as the “yard”, sorting cars for delivery to its own customers. And both Armstrong’s and the above design have more engine service than you may need for a one- or two-engine shortline.

The Ballard Terminal is one such shortline, with only a runaround at the Class 1 interchange and one other double-tracked industrial siding that could be used as a runaround.

The best way for you to get useful advice would be to post your track plan and describe what you want your layout to accomplish. Otherwise, you’ll hear a lot of generalities, some of which are even correct, that don’t really pertain to your needs.

Best of luck with your layout.

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
  • 4,387 posts
Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 10:06 PM

Never mind.

Just Larry being Larry.

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, May 14, 2014 3:39 AM

cuyama

Never mind.

Just Larry being Larry.

 

You started the dance not me.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 7,486 posts
Posted by ndbprr on Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:13 PM
I suspect that most shortline yards were built by the predecessor and not a capital outlay by the shortline after taking ownership.
  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:48 PM

ndbprr
I suspect that most shortline yards were built by the predecessor and not a capital outlay by the shortline after taking ownership.
 

Fun facts..

A lot of today's short line track is owned by a port authority and the short line operates the track by contract.These contracts can be renewed or can be rejected by either party and the bid for a new operator open.

Thought I would throw that  tidbit in..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!