I am modelling the late 1950's. Would CP have used ditch lights on their FP7As at that time or did they come along later?
Thanks
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Ditch lights didn't become mandatory until the mid to late 90's, although CP did start using ditch lights on some engines as early as 1974. There weren't ditch lights on ANY engines back in the late 50's.
Some information if you're interested ....
http://www.trainweb.org/gyra/dc_lts.htm
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Hi again Mark:
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. You just saved me a whole bunch of wiring and soldering.
The reason I asked was that the Canadian Pacific roster shows a few FP7s with ditch lights but the pictures were not taken in the 50's so I couldn't tell when the ditch lights were installed.
http://www.trainweb.org/galt-stn/cproster/main.htm
The FP7s start in the 1400 series.
Thanks again Mark! You seem to be my 'go to' guy for all my recent questions. Much appreciated!
The FP7s technically start in the 4000 series, at 4028, in groups mixed in with MLW-Alco and CLC-FM A-unit groups. Many, although not all, were subsequently renumbered into the 1400 series when they were regeared to allow 89mph speed. As passenger trains disappeared many were later returned to freight gearing (65mph) and their original 40xx numbers. The FP9s (1405-1415) were delivered as 1400s and never changed under CPR ownership
cx500:
Thanks for the information on the numbering of the FP7s and 9s. I was going by the numbering that came on the Intermountain units I have that were labelled as FP7s.
Perhaps I could pick your brain a bit more. I have two FP7s (supposedly), one numbered 1415 and the other numbered 1421. 1415 I bought as a shell on eBay and it was advertized as an FP7. I take it from your post that number 1415 should actually be an FP9. Correct? Also, is #1421 correct for an FP7?
I have three FB units, 1903, 1907 and 4435. Am I fudging things if I run those with the FP7/FP9 locomotives?
I really appreciate your information.
You are correct, 1415 should be an FP9A. So unfortunately, there will have to be a little fudging there.
As to correctness of the others, it may depend on what era you are modeling. The 1415 is simple, since it always carried that number.
The 1421 (FP7A) was delivered in 1952 as the 4063, renumbered to 1421 in 1954 and back to 4063 in 1966. It lost its steam generator in 1967.
The 1903 and 1907 (F9B) were delivered in that number in 1954, renumbered to 4475 and 4478 in 1971.
The 4435 (F7B) was delivered in 1951, renumbered to 1909 in 1954, and back to 4435 in 1966. It lost its steam generator in 1970.
The original paint scheme for all had block lettering. Since the 1400/1900 units were premier passenger power, they would probably have been repainted with the script lettering fairly soon after its introduction in 1963. In turn, they were all in the action red within a year of its September 1968 introduction. The 4063 was still in the script in 1971, action red by 1974. The 4435 was in action red in 1971.
The 1400/1900 units were rarely seen in freight service, since they had 89mph gearing. With the renumbering, the gear ratio was also changed, from/to a maximum of 65mph, better for hauling tonnage. And even though some lost their steam generators, they could still be used in passenger service since the through steam lines would be left in place, just another unit would have to provide the steam.
Were you planning to install the icicle breakers on the two A-units?
John
Thanks John:
I am loosely modelling the late 50s. I love the script logo so my coal trains will be mostly script but all the F series engines have block lettering. The 4435 FB unit should be renumbered to 1909 but I'm not too comfortable with doing the renumbering in case I mess up the paint or number boards.
When did the FP9A come into service?
I have one set of ice breakers which I am considering adding to one of the FPs and if I do I will do the other one too. I also have roof mounted bells for the A units. All the FAs and FBs have (or will have) winterization hatches. My concern there is that they are the low style instead of the high ones. Would those details be correct for the late 50s? Anything else you would suggest?
You will have to start charging me a fee for answering all the questions!
The FP9A came in the spring of 1954, with the icicle breakers added by 1955. CPR's A-units did not have roof mounted bells, presumably tucked under the frame instead. You are thinking CN there. The higher winterization hatch seems to have been a modification later in the 1950s, but I can't be any more precise.
As far as having roof mounted bells, I was going by the picture of #1400 which does have a bell on the roof. However it seems to be the exception because I couldn't see any other locomotives with roof mounted bells in the 1400 series. I'll leave the bells off.
The ice breakers are a go for sure. I will have to order a second set.
The tall winterization hatches appear on almost every locomotive in the series so I will have to change the ones I have, or perhaps just modify them by putting a second hatch underneath. I find them difficult to paint by brush without filling in the screen detail. I haven't got my spray booth set up right now so I am stuck with using brushes. Using the factory hatches on top would require that only the bottom half of the high hatches needs to be painted and the brush will work fine for that.
Thanks again.
By the way, if I can ask, where do you get the detailed information?
Double post! Sorry. I thought I lost the first one because it dissappeared from my screen when I went to post it.
Likely that picture of the CP1400 with the bell on the roof dates from its second career with CPR. It was rebuilt while under VIA ownership (VIA 6550) and the bell location was changed at that time. Its companions running the Royal Canadian Pacific, 1401 and 1900, were originally CN locomotives. Nebkota Rail bought all three from VIA. Many years later, in 1999, when CPR was looking for cab units they were available. It is pure chance that one happened to be of CPR heritage.
My information comes from a variety of sources. A basic reference, now long out of print, is the 1981 book by Dean & Hanna, Canadian Pacific Diesel Locomotives. I have bought prints, especially from the 1950s, and of course pictures appear in numerous other publications and books. Finally I have been taking photographs myself since 1968.
John:
Thank you for the education!
I just installed the ice breakers on the FP9A.
Drilling into the pristene shell was slightly traumatic - first time for everything. The Custom Finishing ice breakers aren't quite accurate in terms of the length of the back supports but I think that might be a result of having to cast a three dimensional item in what is basically a two dimensional clam shell mold. In any case they look pretty good. I wish the brass was harder because they bend very easily. The locomotive shell will have to be handled with care from now on.
I have tall winterization hatches on order too.
EDIT: $#&@#*&^% phooey!!
I just realized that I put the front ice breakers way too far forward on the locomotive. I should have spent a little more time studying the pictures. The mounting diagram supplied with the ice breakers isn't very clear. I just tried to pop them off but the good old CA would have none of that. Besides, patching the holes and matching the paint would be a PITA! They are staying put! My bad! %$#@&*^&* again!