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Flooring in Great Northern # 2500 Alumuinum Box Car

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Flooring in Great Northern # 2500 Alumuinum Box Car
Posted by cedarwoodron on Saturday, April 19, 2014 11:38 AM

I am doing a copy of the old GN #2500 all-aluminum "experimental" 40 ft. box car that was built at the end of WW2.

What color would the interior flooring be in such a car? Did they insert wood flooring sheets to protect the underlying metal floor, or just leave it bare metal? What was standard practice in the 1940s for this?

Cedarwoodron

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Posted by mlehman on Saturday, April 19, 2014 3:19 PM

Is there are labeling on the car to the effect of it having a "nailable floor"?

Mike Lehman

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Posted by dknelson on Saturday, April 19, 2014 6:11 PM

GN 2500 was an express boxcar so perhaps it would not have needed a nailable steel or wood floor.  I found a good image using Google and the side lettering says nothing about the flooring.   I would not be shocked to learn that the floor was aluminum planks.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by ndbprr on Sunday, April 20, 2014 7:03 AM
If you can find an ORER from anytime during its existence it may tell you og anything special about it.
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Posted by cedarwoodron on Sunday, April 20, 2014 7:21 AM

Dave: I have those same two (side and end) builder images of the 2500 box car. I only wish there was a door open in one image to clue me in.

I am guessing Walmart primer gray and some light dry brushing of a black india ink wash on top of that will be sufficient to convey a metal flooring appearance. I don't plan to glue the doors closed- I may throw a pallet in there later.

Cedarwoodron

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Posted by mlehman on Sunday, April 20, 2014 9:03 AM

Dave's surmise is probably as good as it gets without further evidence. I was thinking a nailable floor would mean most likely not wood. The floor was probably aluminum, but hard to say in what form. Planks sounds good, but given the limited availability of AL shapes when the car was built, it could also simply be plate in some form.

I say this having been in trucking where AL is widely use nowadays. It's actually a pretty neat trick to get flooring that's holds up to the abuse of warehouse equipment typically used to load and unload over the road trailers. That was less of a factor when this car was built, as so much of that was done by hand, not machine. But it's the part of the car I can see wearing out first if built experimentally with AL.

If there were any drawings available, the spacing of the floor structure might give a clue.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by cedarwoodron on Sunday, April 20, 2014 2:20 PM

I did a pretty thorough search for additional images- unless someone has a separate set of them in a location that google doesn't normally access. I have a copy of the original ad from Alcoa, where they describe it as having been travelling 15,00 miles per month at mostly "express train" speeds, and subsequently, without any need for maintenance.

I don't know much about the mileage a standard box car gets, but my guess is that the original cost of the car was pricey at that time (?), or the other construction materials (sheet steel) were far cheaper, as being the reason that this car was an orphan.

Cedarwoodron

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Posted by ndbprr on Sunday, April 20, 2014 3:09 PM
It woulld be hard to tell where aluminum and steel would intersect but steel and aluminum in contact can be quite corrosive. Nails would be steel and the floor aluminum might not be a good combination. In addition aluminum would not have the same load bearing ability of steel. My total guess is the floor and structurals would have been steel and just the shell aluminum with possibly a gasket of some type to prevent galvanic corrosion.
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Posted by maxman on Sunday, April 20, 2014 3:53 PM

cedarwoodron
I don't know much about the mileage a standard box car gets, but my guess is that the original cost of the car was pricey at that time (?), or the other construction materials (sheet steel) were far cheaper, as being the reason that this car was an orphan.

[/quote user= "ndbprr"] It woulld be hard to tell where aluminum and steel would intersect but steel and aluminum in contact can be quite corrosive. Nails would be steel and the floor aluminum might not be a good combination. In addition aluminum would not have the same load bearing ability of steel. My total guess is the floor and structurals would have been steel and just the shell aluminum with possibly a gasket of some type to prevent galvanic corrosion.[/quote]

 

A little bit of discussion on these comments on this Sunshine Models webpage: http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/modeling/new%20products/sunshine/sunalumboxmain.html

Concerning nailable floors, when was this invented?  Earliest patent I can find is circa 1956.

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, April 20, 2014 4:49 PM

My 1953 "Car Builders' Cyclopedia" has an 8 page spread by Great Lakes Steel Corporation extolling NSF.  I seriously doubt that the introduction of NSF for railroad cars precedes 1953 by much.  There is note that there is a patent pending.  There is NO triumphal listing of railroads using this new product.

In addition, I expect that the need for NSF in express cars was extremely low.  

 

Ed

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Posted by cedarwoodron on Sunday, April 20, 2014 8:08 PM

At the prices Sunshine charges for theirs, I will stick with mine- home built and my labor is free!

I ddin't realize (until I read the Sunshine website) that aluminum was being pushed as much as that- with several other railroads being test beds for such box cars. Steel won that battle apparently.

Cedarwoodron

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Posted by wjstix on Sunday, April 20, 2014 10:06 PM

Because of the need to nail wood pieces to the floor and walls to hold freight in place in the car, steel boxcars had wood interiors at least into the 1960's I believe.   I can't see why an aluminum car from that time would be any different. Nailable steel floors I don't think really became common until the 1970's.

Stix
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Posted by 7j43k on Monday, April 21, 2014 11:06 AM

Regarding NSF, I'm glad I'm not the one who has to hammer a nail through a 2x and have it land right in the nailable slot.  Now, with a drill press and a tape measure, it's another story.

I envision a lot of bad words being spoken while dealing with NSF.  

 

Ed

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