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UP F3A on Southern Railway

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  • Member since
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  • From: Florida
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UP F3A on Southern Railway
Posted by ChefBob on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 5:27 PM

I'm modeling Southern Railway from the 1960's. A well meaning offspring suprised me for Christmas with a Union Pacific F3A for my layout. I'd like to know if it would have been unusual to spot UP on SR during my approximate era of modeling?

Thanks

Chefbob

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 5:53 PM

That's a hard call-I seen Burlington GP30s trailing PRR U25Bs..Seen UP on the PRR as well.These was  run through power on TTX trains in the early to mid 60s.

So would a UP F unit show up on the Southern? Probable.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


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Posted by West Coast S on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 5:53 PM

Not unusual but impossible with regards to the F3...UP F3's have a interesting history, starting in the late forties virtually all assigned to the Northwest were rebuilt in house to F7 specifications with very little changes in external appearence, by the mid fifties these recent conversions were found insufficient with UP returning all to EMD for conversion to F9 specs which forever altered their as built appearence. Due to the special nature of your F3 I would enjoy and operate it as is. 

Dave

SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by tgindy on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:58 PM

Even if a UP F3 never ran on Southern trackage -- Every so often, a railroad may lease motive power from another railroad -- Or purchase a used locomotive from another railroad.  So, for your MR layout -- This is a way to justify running a UP F3 on your Southern layout.

Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 9:31 AM

It would be very rare, the UP didn't connect to the SOU until way after the UP F3's were retired, so there are very few natural run through opportunities.

One outside chance would be the Missouri Pacific.  THe MP ran the SMU, UMS trains from the UP at Kansas City to the SOU at Memphis via the Cotter Sub.  It used pool UP/MP?SOU power.  The caveat is that I don't think it was running when the UP was using F units. Ignoring that, that would be a direct connection from the UP to the SOU.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by ChefBob on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 10:09 AM

I did see a MP connection in St Louis with Southern so the run thriugh is interesting. But, after mulling it over, I'm suspending the boundaries of my "era" for this engine. It was a gift from my boy and he does watch UP rolling by the MO-PAC xway in Austin every day .......so... damn the era, full speed ahead under the guise of a run-through or leased motive power. 

Thanks for the information guys. Always appreciated.

Chefbob

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Posted by ALEX WARSHAL on Thursday, January 2, 2014 10:07 AM

If you are modeling the SOU around Memphis, TN it would be very probably. I lived there for a few year and saw NS and UP, so why not turn back the clock and you have SOU and UP.

My Layout Photos- http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/ajwarshal/library/

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Posted by ALEX WARSHAL on Thursday, January 2, 2014 10:11 AM

I agree with you ChefBob run the train on the layout like it is leased or running through.

My Layout Photos- http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/ajwarshal/library/

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Posted by dknelson on Thursday, January 2, 2014 11:45 AM

Just for fun I checked the Withers book Diesels of the Southern Railway  1939-1982 and not surprisingly they do not show run through or leased power at all.  And I have to say that in my experience leased and run through power was rare in the 1960s, somewhat more common in the 1970s, but now it seems quite common and almost nothing surprises me any more.

One thing the Withers book does show, however, is that the Southern was a very enthusiastic purchaser of the F3 locomotive.  102 F3As, some of which were CNO&TP and some AGS, but most were true Southern.  So he sure nailed that aspect of the gift for you!

Some were retired as early as 1963 but a good percentage was kept until the early 1970s.  Having said that the Southern made many modifications to their F3s -- dynamic brakes; air tanks on the roof, etc.

Might I suggest another alternative.  Your son meant well and wants you to fully enjoy the locomotive.  I'd try to acquire a shell F3 painted Southern (and perhaps detailed as such) and enjoy that on the chassis he gave.  You'd still be enjoying the essence of his gift, perhaps more so because you'd be running it more.  The UP shell could be kept or made into swap meet material.  You'd be keeping more of the gift than if he gave you the wrong size shirt or gloves and you exchanged them -- which happens all the time with no hard feelings.   I have this hunch you wouldn't do much with a UP engine over time.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by binder001 on Thursday, January 2, 2014 1:20 PM

First, it was very nice of him to get you a train item.  As stated previously, if you are modeling the "transition" era, there just weren't any agreements that I am aware of between UP and Southern.  If you want to run that "special" locomotive as is, then you COULD stretch things a bit and have it be leased.  Again it depends on the era you are interested in.  The UP didn't appear to lease out power in the 50's, but in the early 1960s there were older units on the property.  In the early 60's the UP did lease a batch of their excess FA/FB units to CP to help move export grain.  You could tell a nice "tall tale" about how the SOU had special moves and the UP was courting some traffic routing and leased the F3 to your road.  Historically accurate? No, Fun and fanciful, yes!

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Posted by rrboomer on Sunday, January 5, 2014 6:39 PM

How about special passenger movements such as Military,  Boy Scouts,  Shriners, etc,   that originated on the UP and terminate on the Southern?

In the '60's the UP unit would be training as there were no multi channel radios (four ch max on some roads back then) and UP radio equipment was different from most other roads so one could not just change out the UP power pack with a Sou pack.

Dick Haave

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Posted by ACY Tom on Sunday, January 5, 2014 7:54 PM

Two choices, depending entirely on the opinions/sensibilities/temperament of the donor.

First, just use it in any way you want, in its original condition, making sure it's on the layout whenever the donor visits.

Second, repaint it into SR's black and off-white scheme with gold trim, IF THE DONOR AGREES.   I lived in N.C. for a while in 1966-67, and saw SR F3's in passenger service, so it is justifiable as a SR unit.  The recollection is a bit hazy, but I think F3a's were used with FP7's on a mainline mail train or some such.   You know the donor and we don't.  Some relatives would be pleased to know that their gift is getting the attention it deserves to fully integrate it into your operation; others would be offended.  The gift was given with the best of intentions, so you would certainly not want to offend the donor.

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