Hey Guys.
I just got through watching a clip of the museum move, down in Frisco Texas and I wondered, how do you tow a cold steamer? Would it be necessary to disconnect the drive rods from the piston? In the video clip I could not tell if the piston was disconnected from the drive rods, or is there a way to set the pistons so (for lack of a better word) they float?
Judging from the amount of smoke coming out of the stack, the power must have been an old Alco hooked on to the string of old cars and locos.
Have fun
Lee
The question is how far?
If its just a short distance you open the drain valves on the cylinders and move the engine slowly.
If its a long distance then remove the main rod between the piston and the drivers.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Dave makes a good point. If one to were to move the locomotive any distance while not 'working steam', there a a couple of issues:
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I was there in Wasena Park, Roanoke, Virginia on October 16, 1981 when the N&W J 611 was moved from its display for restoration to operation. It had been retired in 1959, donated to the City of Roanoke in 1962, and sitting outdoors there in the park since 1963. The crew had checked everything several times, but I was amazed that when they started to pull her, there was not a single squeal or moan. The roller bearings had held up very well.
The prior information on removing the rods and such for a distance move is noteworthy, but I just wanted to point out that if the locomotive was in reasonable condition when "parked", it might not take all that much to move it again.
Bill
Lee.
I read an bulletin from the twenties put out by the PRR on instructions for towing/ moving dead in tow locomotives. I'll be darn if I can find it now. It was online but I can not find it now.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I don't know how they're doing it in Texas, but in general:
For a short move (like around the shops) it was usually enough to make sure the cylindercocks were open (they should be anyhow) and make sure the crosshead guides were oiled.
For long moves the main rods could be removed, leaving the main driver out of balance. If there was a rider (sometimes called an engine messenger) going along on the move, the main rods could be left on and the pistons and piston rods removed from the crossheads. This kept the main drivers balanced, but they had to make sure the crosshead guides were kept oiled. In either case the eccentric rods had to be removed from the valve gear.
Either way it was common for dead engines to be moved under speed restrictions and sometimes in local freights if possible.
I found this in a book of rules from 1956. If you have a detached tender then no pushers are allowed.
Dead or Disabled Engines 4160-B. Dead engines of a design having two or three pairs of drivers and no trucks, may be moved only at speeds not exceeding 20 miles per hour. Dead engines of a design having four pairs of drivers and no trucks shall be restricted to speeds not exceeding 25 miles per hour.
Two or more such dead engines in the same train shall be separated by one or more cars.
A dead freight or passenger engine with engine truck removed must not be handled in freight trains, but may be hauled in a work train at a speed not exceeding 15 miles per hour, to the nearest terminal where repairs can be made.
A freight or passenger engine with the engine truck removed, may be moved under steam or in a work train at a speed not exceeding 15 miles per hour to the nearest terminal where the repairs can be made.
All engines equipped with side rods must have them applied when hauled dead in trains. Suitable washers of wooden blocks clamped together with bolts must be used on main rod bearings when necessary to keep the side rods in place.
All engines and tenders hauled dead in trains must have the air brakes cut in and operative.
The presence of an attendant (furnished by the consignor or consignee), whose duties are those of caretaker, does not relieve the train crew or inspectors of any responsibility in connection with the movement of the engine or detached tender. The same attention and inspection must be given as is required for any other equipment in the train.
Engines shall be equipped with hand brakes or accompanied by a car equipped with hand brakes. Otherwise the attendant must carry with him chains or suitable blocking for the purpose of securing engine and tender while standing alone.
When necessary to clear the main track, engines with any main or side rods disconnected may be moved to a terminal at not exceeding fifteen (15) miles per hour unless otherwise restricted.
If engines with any main or side rods disconnected while on the main track, have interference between crossheads or guide and front crank pin, on account of front wheels getting out of register, engineman must notify the Superintendent and receive instructions for further movement.
When it is necessary to move a light engine with any main or side rods disconnected, from a terminal to another point, the master mechanic or Assistant Superintendent--Motive Power will notify the Superintendent the speed permitted before the engine is dispatched and the latter will then issue the necessary instructions.
When detached tenders are moved in train pusher engine or engines shall not be used.
Tenders must be equipped with brake pipe line. Tenders with inoperative air brakes, must be placed back of cars having operative brakes, as specified in Instruction 10, third paragraph of the 99-D-1, Brake and Train Air Signal Instructions.
Not more than two tenders should be moved on the rear of any train.
Any electric or diesel engine equipped with draft gear, hauled "dead" in train must be placed in the forward half of the train, preferably near the hauling engine, but in no case further than fifty (50) cars from the hauling engine.
Each engine unit must be counted as a car and must be separated by one or more cars with operative air brakes unless it is known that the engine units are equipped with alignment control couplers or coupler stops, and that the air brake equipment on each unit incorporates a brake pipe vent valve, in which case the engine units can be coupled consecutively.
Note: Class GS-4 engines are not equipped with vent valves, but all other classes of PRR diesel engines are so equipped. A new engine must not be moved at a speed greater than thirty (30) miles per hour for at least the first 100 miles, after which the speed may be increased, but not to exceed the maximum designed speed of any engine in the train.
This speed limit will also apply to engines of foreign road ownership unless accompanied by messenger, in which case speed will be governed by the messenger's instructions or unless waybill or other instructions specify a lower speed limit.
Any electric or diesel engine not equipped with draft gear must be placed not more than five (5) cars from the cabin on rear of train. When more than one such engine without draft gear is handled "dead" in the same train the engines must be separated by one or more cars equipped with operative air brakes.
Cover exhaust stacks and close louvres, windows, and doors to exclude dirt and water. The reverse drum must be locked in neutral position. All isolation switches must be placed in "START" position. If necessary to keep power plant idling, the fuel pump and control switches must be in closed position. When towing an engine with power plant idling, the brake valve cut-out cock must be closed.
When diesel engines en route develop any defect in any portion of the electrical wiring or electrical apparatus which requires shutting down the power plant involved, the unit affected should be closely watched during further train movement for evidence of any fire starting. Should this occur, fire must be extinguished and unit set off at the first convenient location. (Rev. 5/3/64)
Roller Bearing Journals 4160-C. Engines and cars equipped with roller bearing journals must not be operated through water, except in emergency when authorized by the Superintendent and then, only as specified below:
Electric engines, classes GG1, P5, P5a, RDC equipment and cars other than MU cars and rail motor cars, may be run through water when its depth does not exceed 7 inches (measured from top of rail) at a speed not exceeding 2 miles per hour.
Electric engines, classes B1, E2b, E2c, E3b, E44, FF2, L6, L6a, MU cars, rail motor cars and diesel engines may be run through water when its depth does not exceed 2 inches (measured from top of rail) at a speed not exceeding 2 miles per hour. (Rev. 5/3/64)
Articulated Trucks 4160-D. [superseded]
Engines with Drop or Retractable Couplers 4160-E. Engines equipped with drop or retractable couplers when operating in road service must have the front coupler in drop or retracted position.
PETE,
WOW!! A lot of info,,,,,,By any chance,is there going to be a,''test'' on this later??
Cheers,
Frank
yankee flyer Hey Guys. I just got through watching a clip of the museum move, down in Frisco Texas and I wondered, how do you tow a cold steamer? Would it be necessary to disconnect the drive rods from the piston? In the video clip I could not tell if the piston was disconnected from the drive rods, or is there a way to set the pistons so (for lack of a better word) they float? Judging from the amount of smoke coming out of the stack, the power must have been an old Alco hooked on to the string of old cars and locos. Have fun Lee
Just saw a video of the move in Texas. Looks like the piston rods have been cut and the eccentric rods have been removed. The main rods are still on. It was common to cut through the piston rods on engines going to scrap.
DSO17 It was common to cut through the piston rods on engines going to scrap.
Thanks, to everyone for all of the informative reply's.
DSo17
Would they want to cut the piston rods on a museum locomotive? It seems there would be a way to just disconnect them. The video clip didn't say but I believe the equipment was being moved several miles to a new museum in Frisco Tx.
Keep on trucking uh, railroading.
yankee flyerWould they want to cut the piston rods on a museum locomotive? It seems there would be a way to just disconnect them.
I don't know anything about the engine being moved in Texas except for what I saw in the video last night. But my guess is that the piston rods may have been cut by the UP back in the 1950s or 1960s before the engine was sent to the location in Texas. It's a lot faster and easier (and cheaper) to cut the rods than to separate the rods from the crossheads and pull the pistons and rods out of the cylinders. It's just a "cosmetic" thing unless you ever want to get the engine running again...
A cut piston rod does not doom a locomotive, they can be reproduced, UP is going through the effort to disassemble the cylinders on 4014 for her tow home to Cheyenne, prior to this event they intend to relocate it to Colton for a unspecified period of time for bearing and other mechanical work.
Dave
A lot of the preparation for, "Dead in tow'" steam depends on what is going to happen when the loco arrives at its destination.
For the move from Bellows Falls, VT to Scranton, the Steamtown collection had main rods removed and eccentric rods disconnected. When I went to Steamtown, years after the move, they were still removed.
For the 'one cylinder' move from Bristol to Roanoke the main rod on the dead side was removed at the driver end and chained up. Since the eccentric rod on that side had failed (the reason for the odd move) there was no need to otherwise immobilize the valve gear. Running on a single cylinder that J allegedly reached 85mph! After repair, it (Like all the Js) routinely ran at 90mph.
The Prosperity Special, 20 new locos for the Southern Pacific from Baldwin, rolled with main rods and eccentric rods removed. SP shop forces installed them and put the locos to work.
The Texas Big Boy move is from one display location to another. The cut piston rods are unlikely to be restored to mechanical perfection.
Dead-lined locomotives bound for a scrap dealer frequently had their main and eccentric rods torched off - quicker and easier than removing them serviceable. If the owning railroad had wanted them for spares they would have taken them off more carefully.
Seen on the JNR O-me sen in (approximately) 1963. Ten 8620 class 2-6-0s arrived on a siding near an industrial plant. The lead loco was in steam, the others were dead and had had their rods torched. About two weeks later there were a few odd bits and pieces along that siding, the only proof that there had ever been locomotives there.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I found the bulletin dated 6/1/1926. http://prr.railfan.net/documents/pdf/GeneralNotices/GeneralNotice-214-B_RegulationsGoverningTheHandlingOfDeadLocomotives_06-01-1926_300mono.pdf