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Southern Pacific Mogul Tender

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Southern Pacific Mogul Tender
Posted by ColinUSA on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 10:36 PM

In the photo album book by Duane Karam Jr. are several tenders that are a boxy looking style, e.g. Loco 1701 on page 17. They resemble the tender in this photo of a 4-6-0: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2382.JPG

What is this type tender called? Are the basic dimensions published? How about photos at different angles so that one can figure out details of the top, back and sides?

Thanks, Colin Ferguson

Tags: SP Mogul
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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:09 PM

That's an oil bunker.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by West Coast S on Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:46 PM

Per SP classification this would a R-retangular design/90, nine thousand gallon water capacity, thus the R-90 class of which there were 7 subclasses, orginal tender for the M1 Brooks built class moguls and the prototype for additonal company built examples. The subclasses resulted from continued improvements in oil/water capacity and to denote periodic system standard upgrades. SP was fanatical when it came to tender swapping,  if modeling a speciifc prototype for a particular period, photos are a must, never assume when modeling SP steam!!!!  I'm not aware of line drawings or tender data cards for the R class tenders, although this seems not to be the case with other classes which seem well recorded.

Dave   

 

 

SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by ColinUSA on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:30 AM

Hi Dave,

I visited my local library looking for photos but no luck. I searched the net for R-90 and came up with zilch for the prototype. I did find three different looking model tenders:

  1. http://www.proto48.org/p48_photos_pietschmann_01.htm - most resembles the photos in Karam's book except it is too long
  2. http://www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/040162/HO-Brass-PFM-Fujiyama-SP-Southern-Pacific-2-6-0-M-4 - right length and I think if the tool boxes, rerail frog and the parapet  were removed it would resemble the photos.
  3. http://www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/039739/HO-W-R-Enterprises-SP-Southern-Pacific-90-R-Tender-RARE - little resemblance to photos, especially the vertical linkage/controls rising above the level of the oil tank at the instrument panel. 

Thanks, Colin

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Posted by West Coast S on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:49 PM

Colin

In my opinion the best option is a USRA short tender, demensions appear close, you do need to cut down the coal bunker and detail as per your'e prototype. 

Here's what you found:

Example one was constructed by the Los Angeles General Shops for use with the SE class 0-8-0 heavy switchers, i'm aware of two oil bunker variations and one that was painted royal blue for duties at LAUPT!

Example two, duel fuel use, not required after 1939, side sheets removed upon installation of oil bunker.

Example three, this one's a lone wolf and was assigned to the Roseville trimmer,  in this case Sacramento did the conversion to increase oil/water capacity and assigned orginally to a demoted Mikado.  

Dave

SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by andrechapelon on Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:34 PM

ColinUSA

In the photo album book by Duane Karam Jr. are several tenders that are a boxy looking style, e.g. Loco 1701 on page 17. They resemble the tender in this photo of a 4-6-0: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2382.JPG

What is this type tender called? Are the basic dimensions published? How about photos at different angles so that one can figure out details of the top, back and sides?

Thanks, Colin Ferguson

 

Are you talking about the IHC Mogul? That was a model of an SP M-4. PEMCO was the original manufacturer of that engine and when they did it, they powered the tender and made the tender oversized. Basically the tender on the IHC M-4 is a 52R-1 (5200 gallons) that's been shot with steroids ad then been stretched on the rack because IHC didn't correct the tender when they put the mechanism in the engine.

A more correct (and fairly readily available) tender would be the 7000 gallon Vanderbilt tender made by Model Die Casting/Roundhouse (now part of Athearn) or you could a section out of the tender in the center and shorten it up to more closely resemble the original 52R.

Here's a pic of E-23 4-4-0 #1505 with a 52R-1 tender.  The E-23's and M-4's used the same boiler and were built contemporaneously withe each other. http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP1505.JPG

As noted elsewhere, SP had a tendency to play "musical tenders" with its engines, so you could have pics of the same engine taken 6 months apart where the tenders are completely different.

Andre

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by ColinUSA on Friday, May 31, 2013 12:34 AM

Hi Andre,

Yes, I am looking to make a tender for an IHC mogul. The tenders in Karam's book look like the picture you referred to but with the parapet removed, i.e. no lip or side sheets at the top of the lower tank. I have sectioned out an IHC tender following the article in the 2008 August issue of Model Railroader. Now I am looking for photos of the front and back of such a tender.

I am familiar with the Roundhouse Short Vanderbilt tender kit #403  which I estimate to be a 5000 gallon tender. That kit has a metal die cast chassis which I think renders it too heavy for the weak pulling IHC Mogul. I have married an IHC Mogul to a Bachmann Short Vanderbilt tender and managed to fit in an MRC #1617 sound decoder.

Thanks, Colin

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Posted by ColinUSA on Friday, May 31, 2013 12:37 AM

Hi Dave,

Wow! I am surprised to learn example two is a dual fuel tender, how does that work? Does a crane lift out the oil tank when they want to run coal?

Cheers, Colin

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Posted by West Coast S on Friday, May 31, 2013 1:16 PM

Colin

SP had several classes of tenders that could accomidate duel fuel, Insert the oil bunker into the vacated coal space with a overhead crane , remove stoker/screw-cab controls (if so equipped)  Fue//heater lines are routed and  plumbed and a burner installed in the firebox. Conversions could be accomplished in under 8 hours.  Delivery of the AC nines rendered such conversion obsolete.

Dave

SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by ColinUSA on Tuesday, June 4, 2013 6:14 PM

andrechapelon

Here's a pic of E-23 4-4-0 #1505 with a 52R-1 tender.  The E-23's and M-4's used the same boiler and were built contemporaneously withe each other. http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP1505.JPG

Andre

Do you know what kind of trucks are on that tender? 

Thanks, Colin

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, June 4, 2013 11:31 PM

ColinUSA
Do you know what kind of trucks are on that tender? 

Looks like they're regular archbar trucks with leaf springs, sorta like these:



Wayne

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Posted by ColinUSA on Wednesday, June 5, 2013 11:00 AM

Hi Wayne,

Yes, those look about right. I see that Kadee makes a set but they are of the two piece self centering design which I think will make it a bit more difficult to add axle or wheel wipers. I can also find metal trucks but I have no idea how one would add wipers to these.  I'll probably go with Kadee and glue or screw the two pieces together.

Thanks, Colin

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, June 5, 2013 12:54 PM

Model Die Casting

has archbar tender trucks on their 2-6-0 Mogul, and you may be able to purchase them, complete with wheels and axle wipers, separately.  I have two pair of the sideframes, but have used the wheels and wipers on Athearn Genesis Andrews-style tender trucks.


Wayne

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