Manufs -- Let's adopt a system for identifying rolling stock time periods

[Anonymous]

What would the model manufacturing community say to putting some type of date on their packaging and magazine ads that identify when a car or loco was introduced and, if known, when it ceased operation?

It would be very helpful to have something like "1930 - 1956" down in the corner where it could let a newbie know when these cars first appeared and operated.

My layout is set in 1957, but some of the cars I have, (many received as gifts) would be too new to appear on the layout. Although most of my visitors would not know the difference, (and I run them all anyway,) it would make it easier to select era appropriate rolling stock.

A simple date code would help those well-meaning gift buyers -- I would just tell them not to buy anything for the layout if the date code was 1958 or newer. I think printing this information in ads would also be a big help, and further educate model railroaders. Anyone else think this is a good idea?

[DSchmitt]

While it would be useful, nothing beats research and knowledge.

For example: a car built in 1950 might be offered only in a post 1960 paint scheme and might have been gone by 1963. A box car built in 1937 might not be appropriate in 1957 even though its still on the roster because it was rebuilt with a different style of ends and doors in 1956.

There was a fairly long transition period from the late 1960's to the mid 1970's when older box cars with roofwalks ran with the mandated walkless cars.

You can have fun running what you like, or you can even go as far as attempting absolute accuracy (which may be fun for you).

[orsonroy]

I agree; there's almost too many variables involved for the manufacturers to deal with this sort of thing.

Let's be realistic: for this sort of thing to actually happen, and be done properly, freight cars would have to be first classified as either being prototypically accurate (paint scheme AND model being relatively accurate), or labelled as "freelance" (paint scheme and/or car inaccurate). No manufacturer will readily announce to the world that their $19.95 model is a bogus POS. And without any honesty, a manufacturer can logically paint a 40' 1937 AAR box car into a modern BNSF scheme, and label it as belonging to a "1994-2004" time frame.

OK, that above's a bit extreme, but you get the point. Manufacturers like Westerfield, Sunshine, F&C, P2K and Branchline do their utmost to give us modelers only prototypically accurate (mostly) cars, and they DO have build dates somewhere in their documentation. Manufacturers like Athearn and Roundhouse mostly make inexpensive models of non-cars, painted for whatever they think will sell. Manufacturers somewhere in between include REd Caboose and Intermountain: they have accurate models, but paint half of the ones they produce into bogus schemes.

All in all, it's up to the consumer and the dreaded "R" word: RESEARCH. I'm not talking about getting a PhD in freightcarology, I'm just saying dig around a bit. The web is getting to be a pretty good place to find railroad prototype information these days. There are lots of photo resources, lots of historical society websites, and lots of discussion forums that deal with many of these basic topics. And best of all, the best basic primer on freight cars, their history, and their paint schemes, as well most of the HO models ever produced, is only online: the NEB&W website:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/

Yes, it's a pay site. But for $5 a month, you'll end up with information overload that's specifically geared towards average modelers who want a more protypically accurate roster (1900-1970, anyway). It doesn't contain information on every railroad or ever freight car ever built, but there's enough information on the site to allow you to become an informed modeler and consumer. It really is worth five bucks, if you have ANY interest in proto accuracy and model before 1970 or so.

[Anonymous]

I think its a good idea, European manufactureers have adopted that system for ages and put it in there catalog's. They are called "epochs 1 - 5" and are era based but a little research as well goes a long way

[DSchmitt]

A big help in choosing cars for a paritcular era is the ORER for an appropriate year. They lists the cars on every railroad and private car company's roster.

Several different years are available in hard copy from the NMRA.

Westerfield has a greater selection of years available on CD ROM

http://users.multipro.com/westerfield/

[Anonymous]

I agree that this would be a good idea. As mentioned above, mainland Europe already has the "Epoch" system, which could also be applied (with some modification) to US outline models - modification would be needed to make the "Epochs" coherent, as at the moment they're set by major changes in Europe - for example, Epoch 5 began with the change from the German federal railways to the privatised German railways of today in the early '90s. While it would be no substitute for research, it would be a major help to beginners and avoid them buying unsuitable/unrealistic collections of cars.

[CBQ_Guy]

We need this for vehicles, too. Especially trucks...

[AltonFan]

When I was a kid, I was always amazed that my military miniatures, ships, and planes all included a few paragraphs of history and vital statistics on the first page of their instruction sheets. (Monogram Models military miniatures also had a sheet on building dioramas using their models.) Meanwhile, model railroad kits, with few exceptions, gave any prototype information at all. Would it have been too much to say to say, "this model is based on RS&T XM-47 boxcars, produced from 1936-1950"? (Especially where the box claimed the product was modeled from "authentic railroad blueprints".) Of course, some model railroad instruction sheets were rather simple as well.

Vehicles pose a special problem. When I look at those pewter or tan resin models of a '53 Chevy or a '49 Lincoln, I have to ask, in what colors were those cars available? And Paul-CBQ_Guy is right about trucks, for which a model year is seldom given. (The same can be said of construction machinery, farm equipment, and fire trucks.)

[ckape]

As much as I like this idea, and as much as I think that a manufacturer can fabricate reasonable dates as easily as they can fabricate reasonable freelanced rolling stock, it's not the sort of thing they'd do willingly because it will steer customers away from their product much more than it'll steer customers toward it.

If you could make era one of the first things a buyer looks at rather than one of the last you might get it to work, but you'd have to heavily change the way a lot of people shop.

[Anonymous]

WOW! What great responses. You people really know your stuff.

This seemed to me at first to be such a logical request, I couldn't understand why it wasn't being done already. For model car collectors/builders, there's no question -- a 55 Chevy is a 55 Chevy and they may throw in some extra parts so you can do a modern customization on the car if you like.

But as so many pointed out, rail cars exist over a long period of time, changing gradually, or by region, or even by road, so when it comes to producing RTR, it probably is virtually impossible to label cars in this way. It might be easier on kits where greater detail may go into the design because they are catering to a more discriminating audience. And I can clearly see how "hybrid" cars evolve from a variety of names, products, paint jobs, etc. in order to appeal to a wider group.

I guess the bottom line is, if you care that much, you'll do the research, and if you just run what you like, or buy a car because you like the looks, the rest is immaterial.

Happy railroading to all and thanks for the great comments.

Tektura

[BRJN]

I like the idea, especially with the 'epoch' modification. BUT.

The railroads tended to use stuff until it was too beat up or $-inefficient to continue. So the epochs would tend to flow together. Only with the World Wars do you get definable break points where the stuff moving on rails before and after are really different. Still, we can try this:
1. Earliest Times. DeWitt Clinton, Best Friend of Charleston
2. Civil War. Actually, anything that could have reasonably been seen on rails 1860-1865
3. Guilded Era. Mostly wood construction cars tended to wear out in 10 years or so. This would cover 1865 to maybe 1880
4. Mechanical Improvements. Still wood-heavy construction but with safety apparatus like Westinghouse air brakes. 1880-1900
5. Mostly Metal 1900-1916
6. World War One designs 1916-1942
7. World War Two designs (and end of steam) 1942-1960
8. Age of Diesel 1960-1980
9. Deregulation 1980-2000
10 Modern 2000+

I have tried to make 20-yr blocks, and set some practical (not just arbitrary)benchmarks for era changes. Improvements and marketable ideas welcome.

[Anonymous]

Please lets do this - as a Brit it's not that easy to get the info but I do care and try to run my European and British stuff to specific time periods. That's hard enough and I'm learning all the time but how do you tell when a particular design of box car was first built - often the labels don't tell you what the prototype for the shell is let alone whether the livery is accurate for that shell

Kev

[Anonymous]

As with 45144, living this side of the pond getting information can be difficult but i think BRJN's bechmarks need to be a little wider. When I was at Colton yard earlier this year, I was surprised to see a Rock Island hopper, in blue, with RI reporting marks given its been 24 years since its demise.

[Anonymous]

I don't think that the manufacturers would have to be way way specific. I think Walthers, when it made the TOFC cars labeled theirs "TTX early 60's" or something like that. Sure, not 100 percent accurate, but does give at least a clue. Something as simple as "1964 Herald and Lettering" would let you know that you wouldn't see it in 1963 but would start to see it the next year continuing on for . . . .well, at least give a start date!

[Anonymous]

I'm with djkelly - I don't need to know the month that the car was built - a decade would be good for the design and possibly the same for the lettering

[Anonymous]

Just putting a "This type of car was originally built during the 1940's, but saw extensive service (with modifications) well into the 1980's" would suffice.

[orsonroy]

Actually, I prefer the way Branchline is doing it now:

"Built 1949, 1963 repaint"
"Built 1927, delivery scheme"

[tstage]

I agree with Ray. I would love to see other manufactuers like Branchline put the built date/repaint date information on the outside of their boxes (I beleve that Red Caboose is also doing this?) Saves me from having to paw through boxes or whip out my reading glasses to try and locate it. - IF it's there.

The fix seems to be a trivial one to me: A small change in the existing label or an additional small round one with the BLT date.

Tom

[peepsight38570]

i agree i like the branchline system have bought several of their cars