New Layout and prototype opperation questions

[Anonymous]

Hello,
I'm about to begin construction on my first real layout. After researching all kinds of trackplans, I found the track plan for our layout on late 1800s state maps of my area. It will be a point to point. It will be set in the 1880s-1910s. It will be a long single track line with two main spurs. The south end of the line will have part of a yard and a roundhouse. This is where the L&N mainline goes through. From the yard our branchline heads north through several small comunities some of wich are long gone now. The first spur leads to a coal mine and coke oven. The second leads to a limestone quarry and iron ore mine. The entrance to the second spur is the end of the line and has a wye. Eventually the line will continue north and loop around back to the yard. I plan to show the line under construction and after the first part is completed our trains will be involved with bringing supplies to the rail head in real life, toting as much stuff as an ho train can handle. In the late 1880s this line started out as the Birmingham to Huntsville Alabama Line L&NRR but by 1890 iron ore was discovered to the east and the line turned from north to east. By 1904 the line left Birmingham heading north turned east then south and west and back into Birmingham.
How was limestone loaded into hoppers,by steamshovels along the spur? It looks like the trains on this line ran backwards for miles with the caboose at the head the engine in the middle with the gondolas on the end until the train could be straightened back out on an additional spur or the wye. Was this common for this era? My rolling stock will include 40' and 36' boxcars some flat cars, gondolas, 36' reefers, some coaches and short early style hoppers. Some of these cars will not be right for the era but at this time I cant afford to spend 20.00 plus for 1890s cars. This is OK because my son's Thomas the Tank will reside in the roundhouse with my daughter's bright but hopefully not pink 4-4-0 and my L&N steamers. What would be a good source for pre 1930 rolling stock? What type of hopper was in use in the 1890s and what would be a good standin?
Thank You, Travis

[dehusman]

in 1890 they might have used gondolas, hopper bottom gondolas or wooden hoppers. They would most likely not have used any of the hoppers made by Athearn, Atlas, MDC or any of the other kit makers. The old Life Like/Varney twin hopper is the right size for a 1900 era steel hopper. The Athearn or Life Like P2K "wooden" hopper is a WW2 era car. Limestone was probably loaded by dumping wagon loads into a bumnker and then gravity loading it into the cars or else having a raised ramp that the wagons or wheelbarrow drove up and they dumped directly into the cars. In the 1890's there would be verrrryyy few 40' cars. About half would be 34' and the rest 36'. There is really no 1890 era hopper made for less than $25 a pop. Also in 1890 half of the cars would have air brakes (air brakes and knuckle couplers became required in 1906). The grab irons were also completely different. Modern grab iron arrangements date from 1911.

Dave H.

[orsonroy]

Hi LunN, and welcome to the wonderful world of proto-based modeling!

QUOTE:
How was limestone loaded into hoppers,by steamshovels along the spur?

It all depends on the size of the quarry. Remember, a steam shovel would be a HUGE outlay of capital in 1900, so the company really had to have enough output to be able to afford it. Generally, for small or midsized quarries, you'd be looking at manual labor (which was CHEAP). The aggregate would either be hand shoveled into the gondolas (NOT hoppers!), dumped by hand via a small ramp, or dumped into a small tipple (Grandt Line makes a great one), which would unload into the gons.

QUOTE:
It looks like the trains on this line ran backwards for miles with the caboose at the head the engine in the middle with the gondolas on the end until the train could be straightened back out on an additional spur or the wye. Was this common for this era?

Probably, but it again depends on the size of the quarry, as well as the terrain. If the operation was large, there would probably be a runaround track at the pit, to allow the engine to run first. Likewise, if the train has to run downhill away from the quarry, you'd want the engine in front, so it's weight would aid in braking the train

QUOTE:
My rolling stock will include 40' and 36' boxcars some flat cars, gondolas, 36' reefers, some coaches and short early style hoppers.

I'd suggest NOT buying any 40' cars. They really weren't that common until WWI, with the widespread acceptance of USRA cars. IHC, Roundhouse and several resin manufacturers make cars that are 32'-36' long, which is about right for your era. And I wouldn't buy many hoppers, unless you're moving a lot of Eastern coal. Before WWI, most coal moved via gondolas, NOT hoppers. Notable exceptions were the PRR and N&W, and you're not modeling either of those roads. Two things to keep in mind when modeling this early era: NO steel boxcars and NO wood hoppers. Steel boxcars didn't gain widespread acceptance until the 1930s, and wood hoppers were either World War Two emergency cars, or Seley cars, which were mostly used by the Southern (and which look nothing like Accurail or Athearn wood hoppers).

QUOTE:
Some of these cars will not be right for the era but at this time I cant afford to spend 20.00 plus for 1890s cars.

Yes you can, if you look around a bit! IHC makes a pretty big line of short 32' cars, Roundhouse makes lots of short cars, Red Caboose makes a great flat, 36' reeefer and composite GS gondola, Tichy makes a nice flat, gondola and ore car, and Intermountain makes a great composite GS gondola. All can be found for less than $20 online. Since you're modeling an era where trains were short, you won't need all that many cars, so you might as well spring for quality and general accuracy over instant gratification.

QUOTE:
What would be a good source for pre 1930 rolling stock? What type of hopper was in use in the 1890s and what would be a good stand-in?

Start with IHC and Roundhouse, and build from there. Here's what I come up with in a general sense for cars from your era:

Atlas: 36' meat reefer. A great car in correct colors for your era (check the box for build dates; many paint jobs LOOK old, but are from the 1950s)

O&W car shop: a great wood gondola. It's a resin kit, but don't let that scare you. Resin kits build just like plastic, but require using superglue. You don't HAVE to add ALL the detail on a resin car! And if you're modeling pre-WWII, you're basically going to HAVE to learn how to build resin!

Funaro & Carmelengo: they have a VERY extensive line of resin cars that fit your era, and they're the least expensive resin cars out there (especially on Ebay). Unfortunately, the instructions suck, and there's no good catalog (except Walthers), so save these cars for when you have a little experience in building resin.

Westerfield: these cars are a bit out of your price range, but are well worth taking a look at. Westerfield has a GREAT website, so you'll be able to figure out what sort of cars you should be looking at for 1890-1929.

Red Caboose: they mostly make cars that are post-WWI, but their 36' reefer, 40' flat, and GS gondola (make sure to get the composite one) make good stand-ins.

Intermountain: their 40' composite GS gondola makes a good stand-in for a pre-WWI gondola.

Tichy: They make, in affordable plastic, a wood ore car, fishbelly flat, and fishbelly flat with gondola sides that would work well for your time period.re

If you MUST use steel hoppers, your best bet are the USRA twin hoppers from Accurail. They're a 1917 prototype, but were based on cars built as early as 1900. They're a pretty good stand-in, and as close as you're going to find, besides resin.

Other useful cars are the Roundhouse 30' flat, 40' steel gondola, and the entire old-timer line. Athearn really doesn't make a single useful car for your era. Tyco used to make a short steel gondola that's usable for cars built after 1905 or so.

In addition, take a look through the Walthers catalog for HOn3 freight car kits. Most of the prototypes are for late-era D&RGW cars, which were HUGE by narrow gauge standards. The should fit right in for old, pre-1900 standard-gauge cars!

And finally, look HARD at the Bachmann Spectrum line of engines for most of your motive power needs. With a little bit of backdating, their 2-8-0, 4-6-0 and 0-6-0T make great 1895-1910 engines!

[Anonymous]

THANK YOU

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by L un N

What type of hopper was in use in the 1890s and what would be a good standin?
Thank You, Travis

Travis,
You might want to look at Red Ball's styrene and etched brass kits for Mann's Creek Railway hoppers at 2 for $ 27.95:
http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/
They are from the 1883 and on era. Don't know how wide spread the use of this design was.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543