I'm considering the possibility of modeling a small vinegar works on my layout (vinegar, pickles, sauerkraut, etc.). I've found virtually no prototype info and a grand total of one photo of a club layout having a vinegar works. Aside from the signage - it looked quite generic in the view I saw.
Hoping to get a little input on what I might model to represent such an industry. I'm assuming inbound would be mostly produce (apples, cabbage, cukes) and salt in boxcars and reefers. Outbound product would be shipped in vinegar tank cars, boxcar and reefers.
Any help would be appreciated...
If I'm not mistaken, a vinegar works produces vinegar, which, in my 1930s modelling era, was shipped in wooden tank cars to processing plants where vinegar would be used. I do recall, as a child, seeing a pickle factory where there were a number of outdoor wooden tanks (like water towers without the legs) where the pickles were aged before canning. Sorry I can't offer any more details, as I was pretty young at the time.
What you're describing is a cannery, where vinegar would be delivered, along with fruit and/or vegetables, for processing. The fruit and vegetables could be locally grown and delivered by trucks or wagons, or brought in from elsewhere by rail. Outgoing shipments of processed products would most likely be shipped in either boxcars or un-iced reefers. I think that those pickle cars were used mainly for delivering bulk quantities of aged pickles (from the tank farm I described) to canneries, for placement in jars.
Wayne
A "Vinegar Works" was once a common lineside industry. The grade on the Milwaukee RR coming up (northbound) into Freeport, Illinois was known as "Vinegar Hill" due to the nearby vinegar works. I don't think I have any photos in my collection, but I have looked at such structures from Southern Wisconsin to Roanoke, Virginia (where the vinegar works was adjacent to the N&W Shenandoah line, just north of the intersection of what is now known as Hollins Road and Pocahontas Street). Large wood tanks, very similar to a RR watertank but sitting directly on concrete, were a defining characteristic of these plants. The ones I have seen all had these wood tanks which never appeared to have had any paint - highly weathered wood sides. Usually there were at least three tanks to allow for product to be in different periods of production. The one in Roanoke then had an open-sided frame structure holding up a roof to cover several of the tanks in a row.
I found a link for a large vinegar works in England that has some photos:
http://www.cryerfamilyhistory.btinternet.co.uk/location-vinegar-works.htm
Apple cider vinegar is made from apple juice, so such a plant would be quite suitable for anywhere that could support apple orchards. Most of the time, the apples would be delivered to the vinegar works by wagon or small truck, and the finished product would go out by rail. The "press" for squeezing the fruit would have been housed in an adjacent structure. Many of us modeling the steam era (especially in HO) do have one of those vinegar tank cars somewhere, and having a vinegar works on the line would provide some justification for its use - they were almost always in "captive" service to one company.
Hope this helps. Bill
Here's a photo of the HO scale Sassen Vinegar Works kit by FSM. I'm in N scale and the kit is neither in my budget nor skillset, but it's an interesting structure that gives me a pretty good idea about what to model. The wooden vats under the open-sided shed seem to be a major visual.I've received quite a bit of helpful info - thanks to all. I'm told that a portion of what I described earlier with the pickles and sauerkraut is would actually take place at a cannery or pickle factory. Vinegar would be distilled at the 'works' and shipped elsewhere.
marknewtonIt might be worth your while to look on the Library of Congress "Historic American Building Survey" website. I'm not 100% certain, but I seem to recall seeing some mention of a vinegar/pickling plant on there. Also, the MR index is worth a look, I'm sure that "way back when" there was an article in MR with drawings and photos of a pickle plant. Cheers, Mark.
"Way back when," was in the 1950's, when Paul Larson authored an MR article on the subject. The structure was what the Squire Dingee Company referred to as a, "Pickle station." Local farmers brought cucumbers by truck, vinegar arrived in vinegar tank cars, salt and spices were box car lading and the semi-finished pickles left in those 'four vats on a flatcar' pickle cars. The pickle cars were owned by Squire Dingee.
Squire Dingee was a major player in the pickle business up until the late 1950s, then faded from the scene. I found one reference that indicated abandonment of a pickle station site in Wisconsin in 1959.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Hi,
The Frisco Kid gave you the best Kit illustrating a Vinegar Works. I have modeled the A M Richter Vinegar Factory ifrom Manitowoc WI. My Father-in-law, Earl Smoky Toltzmann worked for The Richter Company as a young man. His jub, repaiting wooden tank cars. You can get information on the net with the name, A M Richter Vinegar Factory. There is also his bio and family history listed under A M Richter. He was an immigrant from Prussia. The Richter Company did not make pickles.
I believe the last remaining Richter Vinegar Car is at the RR Museum at North Freedom WI. The net also has a photo of wooden tanker. Vinegar and Pickle cars were made in single barrell tankers, two horizontal barrel and four verticle barrel cars.
Vinegar can be made from apple cider, corn, rye and barley malt. Some factories made their own vinegar and also pickles.
I have a Richter Factory on my N Scale Layout with two plastic models of vinegar cars in remembrance of my father-in-law. I also have two actual wooden kit Richter Vinegar tankers which were the find of a lifetime, on Ebay. The 1976 Walthers Catalogue lists the Richter Vinegar Tankcar kit.
Dakota Northern
Beach Bill Many of us modeling the steam era (especially in HO) do have one of those vinegar tank cars somewhere, and having a vinegar works on the line would provide some justification for its use - they were almost always in "captive" service to one company.
Many of us modeling the steam era (especially in HO) do have one of those vinegar tank cars somewhere, and having a vinegar works on the line would provide some justification for its use - they were almost always in "captive" service to one company.
Don't forget bridge traffic. If conceptually each end of your modeled railroad is connected with more railroad, then one needn't model a particular online industry to justify operating industry-unique cars. For instance one needn't model a coal mine or a power plant to justify unit coal trains. Imagine the mine is beyond the modeled layout at one end and the power plan is beyond the other end of the layout. In other words, one doesn't necessary need to model a pickle works or a canning factory to justify the use of a vinegar car... And don't leave out off-line industries not modeled but serviced by modeled freight houses and team tracks.
Actually, when I can justify it, I largely avoid modeling "paired" industries. In the era I model (mid-twentieth century), short hauls were not common. Since it is difficult to convincingly model great distances on our layouts, modeling short hauls is unconvincing. (I don't need to be reminded of examples of short hauls as between quarry and rock crusher, etc.)
Mark
Concurrent with this post, History Channel is saying Americans consume 6 million gallons a vinegar a year. Also, vinegar has an "infinite" shelf life.
January 1955 Model Railroader had Paul Larson's prototype photos, information, and plans of a pickle works. The prototype was in Palmyra Wisconsin.
February 1961 Model Railroader had Dennis Blunt's article on building a model of a pickle factory. The prototypes were in Elk Mound Wisconsin and Knapp Wisconsin.
Both of those pickle works were rather funky looking wood structures. But going to Google Images and typing historic vinegar factory has several hits, and they look like substantial brick buildings, like breweries or other multi story factories.
Dave Nelson
Making Vinegar:
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Vinegar.html
Basically sour Wine.
Apple Cider Vinegar:
http://www.cider.org.uk/
Basically hard cider.
White Vinegar is different. I havent googled for it yet but recall something about bacterial control to get white vinegar.
These links were just a few of many links related to vinegar. It's hard to pin down good links to vinegar making.
Most of my experience came from hauling apple cider out of Virginia I believe it was Whitehouse near Winchester but not certain. They left in very large glass jugs of a gallon 6 to a case. Air ride trailers was a must because one good bump or bad concrete will ruin the load as it will leak all out.
I think also Catsup or Ketchup (Which ever way you want to spell it...) is related to vinegar somehow. I remember a place in Ohio that made Heinz and there was always something about the air there LOL.
Last Chance I think also Catsup or Ketchup (Which ever way you want to spell it...) is related to vinegar somehow. I remember a place in Ohio that made Heinz and there was always something about the air there LOL.
Reading the ingredients label of a bottle of Heinz Tomato Ketchup: vinegar is the second main ingredient. The ketchup is made up of tomato concentrate, distilled vinegar, high fructose corn syrup, corn syrup, salt, spice, onion power, and natural flavoring.
I can picture vinegar and corn syrup delivered in tank cars, but how is tomato concentrate shipped? Is it fluid enough to be shipped in tank cars also?
Heinz in Muscatine used to get tomato'es from local farmers by truck. Then they went to paste by truck and or box car.
Had an uncle that farmed for Heinz.They told him and all the others in the area to stop hand picking and buy machines to do it. So all involved do that and then they say oh we only use paste now.So here they are stuck with all that equipment. Needless to say Heinz isnt allowed in the house anymore lol.But up until that happened it was hand picked ( yes by migrant workers and some of the greatest guys,the boss of them came all the way up from mexico for my dads funeral)and shipped via truck to Muscatine.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
Frisco-kidI'm considering the possibility of modeling a small vinegar works on my layout (vinegar, pickles, sauerkraut, etc.).
I'm considering the possibility of modeling a small vinegar works on my layout (vinegar, pickles, sauerkraut, etc.).
After saving up paper route money, one of the 1960s Model Railroader back issues purchased, and still in my library, is a nice prototype-based pickle factory -- a small building surrounding a couple round wood-sided pickling vats with a wooden deck.
"A factory for those pickle cars"...
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=MR&MO=2&YR=1961&output=3&sort=A
A photo based upon these February 1961 M.R.plans appeared in Model Railroader last year. There are also (5) references from past Model Railroader mags from 1935 to 1961...
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=S&cmdtext=pickle&MAG=MR
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
1966-1981 I worked in one receiving/salting station (pickles), four pickle mfg. plants, and two vinegar works, in Wisconsin, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. The outdoor wood vats are filled with cucumbers, covered with lagged down wood covers and salt brine. They undergo a controlled fermentation which converts sugars to lactic acid, IIRC, which in turn with the salt brine acts as a preservative. They were conveyed/shipped to a "pickle factory" where they were desalted to about 4% salt by weight, and then "processed" by heating to 140 degrees under air and/or liquid agitation, coloring added at the same time, usually either turmeric or yellow #5. Once cooled, the were ready for packaging as dills, slices, etc., or further processed into sweet pickles or relishes.
Inbound deliveries would include cukes (fresh) or salt stock (cured, per fermentation), bulk or bagged salt, sugar (bagged or liquid by tanker), glass jars or tin cans, closures (lids), vinegar (by tanker), and lots of other misc.
The vinegar plants I worked in (Green Bay and "Nordeast" Mpls), used 190 proof SDA alcohol brought in by tanker. GB vinegar was pumped directly to the adjacent plant, MPLS shipped about 30 miles by tanker. Both were nondescript block buildings about 20' high, single story, with walkways at the tops of the generators, which were large wood vats. Very little outdoor details, except for bulk alcohol tank, which held about 7000 gallons. Mix was pumped from the bottom of the vats through cooling system to the top of the enclosed vats and distributed evenly down through beechwood shavings in a continuous process. Bacterial ingestion of the alcohol resulted in conversion to acetic acid (vinegar). Batch production could be controlled to specific times, normally drawn off at 11-12% acidity, but not before alcohol content was below 0.4%.
Sorry, got carried away more by process than as an answer to the original question... Gary
Weighmasteror yellow #5
Now, is that stuff a liquid or a powder?
How would it be shipped to a big pickle plant like discused in this thread? Tank car? Covered Hopper? Boxcar? or is it the case that so little is used that it's shipped in like a 55 gallon drum less-than-carload?
A related question, why would Whitehouse have a very large 62 foot RTR athearn tanker model? Is a vinegar works big enough to support such large rolling stock?
One of Richter's customers was a pickle station in Scottville, Michigan, less than ten miles east of the Pere Marquette (later C&O) ferry docks in Ludington.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
Yellow #5 is a food coloring which could be shipped either in a concentrated liquid or powder form. Even a VERY large operation would not use enough to receive in bulk (tanker or hopper). Powdered, probably in a 25-50# box, liquid in 5-gallon pails or 30-50 gallon barrels. Turmeric is a spice used for flavor/color and could also be liquid or powder. IIRC, about 6-10 fl oz of liquid, or 2# powdered would be enough to process enough pickles for about 4500 quart jars. There I go again with too much answer for a short question; short answer: LTL. Gary
...a Pickle Works surprise!
The March 2009, Railroad Model Craftsman, has an 8-page article by David Leider,"Building a pickle salting station" which is why I bought the issue, along with the March 2009 Model Railroader. The article's first picture shows a pickling gondola car with a covered top with 12 access hatches which at a quick first glance resembles a boxcar roof.
The O Scale salting station models both roof-covered and non-roof-uncovered vats which are made from 1-1/2" PVC-pipe with details for scribing wooden slats and wood coloring. The overall idea does resemble the plans found in the "A factory for those pickle cars" from February 1961 Model Railroader, and; each article has a small wooden office building beside the pickling vats. Both the 2009 RMC & 1961 MR articles cover the subject quite thoroughly.
A pickle factory is targeted as one of my CR&T scratch-buillding projects due to its unique appearance and small layout footprint, and it fits circa 1956 with ease.
For pickle-car owners who don't feel justified running these "oddball" cars without a suitable industry on their layout because they don't believe in thru traffic, Bill Banta is planning on producing a Pickle Salting Facility in HO per his website.
The milk reefer tanks were painted school bus yellow with black letters not orange. The info about the pickle station in Scottville MI is incorrect as well. Richter Vinegar Coproration had a apple pressing plant in Scottville MI. They bought the apple peels and cores from surrounding juice plants and pressed them into cider which they later turned into cider vinegar. this Vinegar was shipped via rail to the Home plant in Manitowoc WI utilizing the C&O car ferry system. Richter Vinegar did not do any pickling however was one of the leading suppliers of vinegar to the pickle industry.
Richter never owned any vertical multi tank cars as the ones that have been reproduced. they only had double tank hotozontal and one single tank configuration. Two of these units are still in existance in the mid continent rail road museum in Freedon WI and the other is in the National Rail road museum in Green Bay WI. The single tank car due to its length was prone to rolling and derailing with its center of gravity hanging so far off center of the cars trucks. thus the double tank configurations were later used.
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Just a little background info on my authority and credentials on this subject..... I am 5th generation Richter Vinegar and family member who used to manufacturer and load these units with vinegar as well as ride the ferry across lake michigan with them back when the ferry carried rail traffic and ran all winter long too.
If anyone has more questions on the wood rail cars pleas ask,
Thanks
Doug Richter
Doug-
Thanks for the correction!
This demonstrates the perils of relying upon the captions from a certain popular series of photo books. I'll gladly accept information from a primary source (such as yourself) any time over something second-hand like I was going from.
Would you have any further information on the steel vinegar reefers, such as when they were acquired and retired, and how many there were and/or a number series?
I'm interested in collecting enough information to model a couple of them.
PICKLES
pickle-loading station Model RRer Aug2005 p.28
HJHCo.73 H J Heinz Co. pickle tank car ARA TW rectangular tank
This car not listed 54 Reg. Lowest # is HJHX 74.
Train Shed Cyclopedia #12 p.1928-308; p.1931-319
SBIX 1634 Standard Brands vinegar tank car
32' long 8000 gallons blt 1938 tank blt 1950 retired 1963
color pix at Natl Museum of Transport,St.Louis 1994
I took this photo with my film camera year ago, but do not have this photo scanned or uploaded to a photo hosting site. Maybe I can find it and post it in a day or two.
SBIX 1682 vinegar tank car blt 1957
"A Rolling Pipeline of Colorful Tank Cars: Classic
Freight Cars Vol.2" p.57 color pix
Speas Vinegar wood tank car SVMX 125 TW (ICC208), photo
Model Railroader Dec08. p.46
I recently saw the Pix if the SBIX 1634....
these cars were the ones that were prone to rollover derail with the long barrel tank swinging way out on curves, switching to the two tank configurations reduced these issues.
I believe the two Richter Vinegar and the one Standard Brands car are the last 3 wood rail road tank cars left in existance.
I have the info on the Stainless steel tanks at work and will try to post it up tomorrow as well as some of the additional info I have
Here is the Pic of the RVCX in Green Bay WI http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=479643
and the single tank car at the mid continent rail road museum in Freedom WI http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/woodfrt/richter11.html
Doug
There were 4 stainless steel insulated milk tankers used. they looked like a box car with slightly rounded corners on top and ends. these were produced by General American Pflauder Company had markingx GPEX tated at 77,000 lbs with two 4200 gallon tanked with an 8' wide enclosed vestibule between the where the clean out manholes view ports and plumbing connections were located. Painted light school bus yellow with black lettering and roofs. These had stainless steel tanks but the flooring in the vestbule was mild steel and so was the undercarrige. shipping concentrated vinegar was very corrosive and these tankers did not last long. two were purchased in 1968 and another two in 1970 were used between 1968 and 1977. only one labored on until 1982 when it too was retired permently and cut up for scrap like the others.
according to the ORER 1923 Fleischman transport company had 143 wood tank cars, HJ Heinz had 12 and Milwaukee Pickle had 14. None were the configuration with vertical takns on a flat car like some of the models produced....
Richter had two built RSX 10 and 11 rated @ 80,000 lbs capacities 8277 and 8040 respectively. car 10 tas off the roster ten years later (rolled) and two more were built in 1944 a new #10 with a cap of 8212 and a number 12 holding 6920. Car 11 was rebuilt in the late 30's and now carried 7828 gallons. Car 14 was added in 1946 and held 8073 gallons. With the purchae of Milwaukee Vinegar Company Richter Vinegar aquired 11 double wood cars # 2,3,4,5,7,10,16,17,18,19,20, with capacities from 6993 to 9546 gallons and one Single tank car with 9546 gallong capacity.
two steel tank cars were leased from General American Tank Car Co.... these were coated by Heresite with a phenolic resin locally in Manitowoc WI to protect them from the Vinegar Acid corrosion.
The cars from Milwaukee Vinegar all carried the M.V.X. and were relettered to the R.V.C.X. fleet designations.
Car RVCX 11 was cornered hard shearing 43 rivits from the under frame between the C&O dock and the Richter vinegar plant.... a distance of 4 blocks. The C&NW RR denied any damage but agreed to move it to Red Granite WI where it was on lease to the Chicago Pickle CO as a storage tank. When moved it was even positioned after the caboose! While on lease there the 7 mile spur was removed and when asked to return the car after the lease had expiled this was realised. So that car was offered and sold to the mid continent rail road museum. The National Guard Tank Retriever division on green bay dissmanlted it and moved it to the North Freedom WI location.
After 1982 all bulk vinegar shippments and transferrs were done by semi truck. Richter Vinegar was sold after 113 years in operation to Fleischman Vinegar in 1988. I then continued to work for them until 1991 when I too was retired from their services realising that had learned as much from me as they could. Fleischman shut down all operations in Manitowoc a few years later and closed the entire plant.
I am looing for any old pictures and or slides but with the changes in photo media several moves and a divorce by my father is making this seem like an exercise in futility....
If I can gather any additional ionformation I will pass it along!
Good morning. Over the weekend, I saw a Vinegar Car on eBay. In the listing is a picture of a Vinegar Tank Car owned by Vinegar Car Works in Baltimore, MD. The picture can be viewed on the Hagley Library web site at:
http://digital.hagley.org/cdm/ref/collection/p15017coll8/id/347
The car was owned by the National Vinegar Works in Baltimore. Does anyone know if plans for this type of car were ever published? Or, does anyone know if more information available on these cars?
National Vinegar Works is now opened by Fleischmann and is still active.
Thanks for your help.
Jerry
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."