Ballasting - One person's experience

[Anonymous]

Q: Do you pre-wet the ballast with alcohol (or some solution) as well, or does all the alcohol in this mixture carry the glue in?

A: I mist with alcohol/water mix about half n half and use a glue bottle to drown the glue mix on. If I don't spay I get rocks on top of the ties and gullies. I don't spare the glue as I buy it a Wally World when it's 5 for a buck. Alcohol is 89 cents a quart. I use playsand for ballast mixed with Woodland Lt Gray course and black playsand from HobbyLobby. This like almost everything I mix is by sight. The only thing I measure anymore is car weight. I use to be a chemist and got burnt out on that whole measure everything scene. Kind of like mechanics that drive beater cars. I then leave it overnight to dry or put a fan on it.

[Anonymous]

Q: Do you pre-wet the ballast with alcohol (or some solution) as well, or does all the alcohol in this mixture carry the glue in?

A: I mist with alcohol/water mix about half n half and use a glue bottle to drown the glue mix on. If I don't spay I get rocks on top of the ties and gullies. I don't spare the glue as I buy it a Wally World when it's 5 for a buck. Alcohol is 89 cents a quart. I use playsand for ballast mixed with Woodland Lt Gray course and black playsand from HobbyLobby. This like almost everything I mix is by sight. The only thing I measure anymore is car weight. I use to be a chemist and got burnt out on that whole measure everything scene. Kind of like mechanics that drive beater cars. I then leave it overnight to dry or put a fan on it.

[Anonymous]

Trainboy,
Many of skills that may initially appear difficult in model railroading, ultimately prove to be not that big a deal. Often there is one little "trick" and once you know that, you're in the club. For example, the secret to soldering is a "shiny" iron tip and lots of flux. Flux is what makes everything come together quickly. If you run into trouble, just post your problem in the forum and you'll probably be offered 10 different solutions to your dilemma.

For me, the most intimidating challenge was a track plan. So what I did was look for "parts" of other published track plans that would fit my intentions and built these into my over all scheme of things. In the end, only about 20% of what I "borrowed" was used, the rest of the plan - 80% - was my own concept.

Here are some quick thoughts on layout building:

dcc - keeps your wiring simple, much easier to deal with than block wiring. Two big wires down the middle of your layout, with a set of feeders from the track to the big wires (power buses). How simple can that be. If you have reversing loops or a wye use an automatic reversing unit.

hand turnouts - keeps the wiring simple along with dcc

scenery - go with a system like Woodland Scenics; it might be more expensive than some methods but its all inclusive and you know people have had good results with it. Having said that - don't use the pellet system for water but their realistic water instead. I can't recommend the "Mountain Valley Scenery Kit" enough; if you purchase it you will get a 45 page manual on how to install it and you will have everything (including ballast). So if you make additional scenery purchases it will only be to supplement what you already have in the kit.

[Anonymous]

Trainboy,
Many of skills that may initially appear difficult in model railroading, ultimately prove to be not that big a deal. Often there is one little "trick" and once you know that, you're in the club. For example, the secret to soldering is a "shiny" iron tip and lots of flux. Flux is what makes everything come together quickly. If you run into trouble, just post your problem in the forum and you'll probably be offered 10 different solutions to your dilemma.

For me, the most intimidating challenge was a track plan. So what I did was look for "parts" of other published track plans that would fit my intentions and built these into my over all scheme of things. In the end, only about 20% of what I "borrowed" was used, the rest of the plan - 80% - was my own concept.

Here are some quick thoughts on layout building:

dcc - keeps your wiring simple, much easier to deal with than block wiring. Two big wires down the middle of your layout, with a set of feeders from the track to the big wires (power buses). How simple can that be. If you have reversing loops or a wye use an automatic reversing unit.

hand turnouts - keeps the wiring simple along with dcc

scenery - go with a system like Woodland Scenics; it might be more expensive than some methods but its all inclusive and you know people have had good results with it. Having said that - don't use the pellet system for water but their realistic water instead. I can't recommend the "Mountain Valley Scenery Kit" enough; if you purchase it you will get a 45 page manual on how to install it and you will have everything (including ballast). So if you make additional scenery purchases it will only be to supplement what you already have in the kit.

[Anonymous]

I allready have a trackplan ( the Turtle Creek Central ) . Thanks for your suggestions !

Alex in the sooner state

[Anonymous]

I allready have a trackplan ( the Turtle Creek Central ) . Thanks for your suggestions !

Alex in the sooner state

[Puckdropper]

If you're just getting in to the hobby, and don't have an idea for a track plan, don't ballast your track yet. I went throught 100s of design changes that would be impossible with ballasted track.

Now, that I have a design, I ballast the track...

[Puckdropper]

If you're just getting in to the hobby, and don't have an idea for a track plan, don't ballast your track yet. I went throught 100s of design changes that would be impossible with ballasted track.

Now, that I have a design, I ballast the track...

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

I dilute my glue 1 part to 10 parts alcohol and it sets like granite and drys faster.

Do you pre-wet the ballast with alcohol (or some solution) as well, or does all the alcohol in this mixture carry the glue in?

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

I dilute my glue 1 part to 10 parts alcohol and it sets like granite and drys faster.

Do you pre-wet the ballast with alcohol (or some solution) as well, or does all the alcohol in this mixture carry the glue in?

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by train boy

I have a question. will it be OK for a beginer like me to do ballest on my layout or should I stick with my original intent and use E-Z track.

Alex inj the sooner state

In my opinion, and I think most scale modelers would agree, the real ballast will give you a much more realisitc effect that you will probably be much happier with in the long run. As for being a beginner, there is only one way I know to become "intermediate" or "advanced" and that is experience. Don't be afraid, jump in and try it. The worst that can happen is you have to clean up a little mess and redo a little, but so does everyone when they first start. Give it a shot and let us know how it turns out.
Ron

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by train boy

I have a question. will it be OK for a beginer like me to do ballest on my layout or should I stick with my original intent and use E-Z track.

Alex inj the sooner state

In my opinion, and I think most scale modelers would agree, the real ballast will give you a much more realisitc effect that you will probably be much happier with in the long run. As for being a beginner, there is only one way I know to become "intermediate" or "advanced" and that is experience. Don't be afraid, jump in and try it. The worst that can happen is you have to clean up a little mess and redo a little, but so does everyone when they first start. Give it a shot and let us know how it turns out.
Ron

[Anonymous]

Also don't disturb the ballast until it is dried. For working close to turnout points mix a paste of ballast, water, alcohol and glue and press it into the ties withh a small spatula so no glue gets into the points or throwbar.

An alternative to eye droppers is those plastic water squirting syringes that the dentist gives you for irrigating the site of a pulled tooth[xx(]. Holds a lot more at a time and the curved shape of the outlet pipe lets you direct the glue flow parallel to the ballast.

[Anonymous]

Also don't disturb the ballast until it is dried. For working close to turnout points mix a paste of ballast, water, alcohol and glue and press it into the ties withh a small spatula so no glue gets into the points or throwbar.

An alternative to eye droppers is those plastic water squirting syringes that the dentist gives you for irrigating the site of a pulled tooth[xx(]. Holds a lot more at a time and the curved shape of the outlet pipe lets you direct the glue flow parallel to the ballast.

[Anonymous]

I have a question. will it be OK for a beginer like me to do ballest on my layout or should I stick with my original intent and use E-Z track.

Alex inj the sooner state

[Anonymous]

I have a question. will it be OK for a beginer like me to do ballest on my layout or should I stick with my original intent and use E-Z track.

Alex inj the sooner state

[Anonymous]

I dilute my glue 1 part to 10 parts alcohol and it sets like granite and drys faster.

[Anonymous]

I dilute my glue 1 part to 10 parts alcohol and it sets like granite and drys faster.

[n2mopac]

I follow this same proceedure almost exactly with two exceptions. First, like your friend, I never found that "wet water" with detergent in it helped, but a water/alcolol solution (50/50) works great. You can saturate the ballast with the same effect using about half as much water and it dries much faster. Second, and everyone argues with me about this, but I have tested it with great success over many yards of track, I dilute my glue much more than most others. Rather than 50/50 I mix one part gule to four parts water. This flows much more easily and holds just as well assuming, as you clearly pointed out, you have saturated the area first.
Ron

[n2mopac]

I follow this same proceedure almost exactly with two exceptions. First, like your friend, I never found that "wet water" with detergent in it helped, but a water/alcolol solution (50/50) works great. You can saturate the ballast with the same effect using about half as much water and it dries much faster. Second, and everyone argues with me about this, but I have tested it with great success over many yards of track, I dilute my glue much more than most others. Rather than 50/50 I mix one part gule to four parts water. This flows much more easily and holds just as well assuming, as you clearly pointed out, you have saturated the area first.
Ron

[Anonymous]

I am an N scaler, but have done all my ballasting on a friends layout, which is HO. I do not consider I am giving you the best technique, but I do know I am giving you the cheapest one that works.

Like many of you, I've had problems when ballasting. And, I've read lots of threads from folks who have had trouble ballasting. I ballast with a chap who is the "master"; he ballasts most people's layouts in our group of model railroading friends. He is also the best modeller, layout builder, etc of all of us. So last week we ballasted a new area on the Kettle Valley HO layout we were working on, so with all the problems I have read about and experienced, I watch him like a hawk. So I am going to give you - step by step - what we did.

First, you have to saturate the ballast. The level of "wetness" of the ballast is actually critical. You will notice I did not say wet it, but saturate it. So lets looks at the difference. Its summer and some one jokingly turns a hose on you and your jeans become wet. The water spreads out over the jean and you aren't dripping. Now the party continues and another friend throws you in the lake, now your jeans when you walk out will be saturated, can't hold any more water; and you are dripping. I will explain why this is important in a minute.

Now when spraying, don't spray directly onto the ballast, nor too closely to it or it will move and holes might form. You are trying to create a heavy rain with the sprayer, but that's it. So spray on the horizontal to the ballast, or slightly down towards it, but maintain your distance with the sprayer. The object is to wet it and saturate it.

What is in your sprayer is plain water. Now I know half the planet advocates "wet water" (water with a couple of drops of detergent in it), or an alcohol water mixture, or pure alcohol. So there I am spraying and I ask Mike how much detergent to put in the water. His response: "Rick, I stopped putting detergent in the water because I couldn't tell the difference when I added it and when I didn't. Since I couldn't tell the difference, I stopped adding it."

You will only want to spray three or four feet only, then move on after the glue/water mixture is eye dropper into the ballast. The mixture of white glue to water is 50/50. Again others will tell you to use matte medium, but the white glue water mixture has worked since the beginning of time. It is possible the earth is held together by white glue and water mixed together. Since this is the cheapest technique and it works, why muck with success.

This next part is important. You must establish a pattern of laying the glue down; its easy to miss a part. So I watched the master. First pass is the white glue/water between the ties, next pass is on the outside of the rail ties, next pass on the ballast beyound the rail ties, then lastly repeating this same procedure on the other side; so 5 passes in all - one in the middle, two on either side of the track.

We used kids eye droppers.

What I recommend, if you've never done this before is try an experiment on the first six inches you do. After you have done this experiment, it will be as though the scales fell from your eyes. For the first 6 inches, don't wet or saturate the ballast for the white glue/water mixture. Put on liberally some glue/water without any wetting agent. What you will discover is that the glue/water sits on top of the ballast without sinking in, also some ballast may float to the top of the glue/water bubble. Now with the glue sitting on top of the ballast, grab your sprayer and start spraying. You will find it takes a bit of spraying, but once the ballast really gets soaking wet, the glue/water will be sucked into the ballast.

When glue sits on top and won't go into the ballast, the ballast isn't wet enough.

Finally after the glue has dried, a day or two or three, go back and run your finger over all of it. You should discover that about 98 % of it is rock solid. You will probably run into a part that isn't securely glued and easily moves. So then you re-soak the ballast with water, then add your glue/water mixture again. And voilà your ballast will be glued solid.

[Anonymous]

I am an N scaler, but have done all my ballasting on a friends layout, which is HO. I do not consider I am giving you the best technique, but I do know I am giving you the cheapest one that works.

Like many of you, I've had problems when ballasting. And, I've read lots of threads from folks who have had trouble ballasting. I ballast with a chap who is the "master"; he ballasts most people's layouts in our group of model railroading friends. He is also the best modeller, layout builder, etc of all of us. So last week we ballasted a new area on the Kettle Valley HO layout we were working on, so with all the problems I have read about and experienced, I watch him like a hawk. So I am going to give you - step by step - what we did.

First, you have to saturate the ballast. The level of "wetness" of the ballast is actually critical. You will notice I did not say wet it, but saturate it. So lets looks at the difference. Its summer and some one jokingly turns a hose on you and your jeans become wet. The water spreads out over the jean and you aren't dripping. Now the party continues and another friend throws you in the lake, now your jeans when you walk out will be saturated, can't hold any more water; and you are dripping. I will explain why this is important in a minute.

Now when spraying, don't spray directly onto the ballast, nor too closely to it or it will move and holes might form. You are trying to create a heavy rain with the sprayer, but that's it. So spray on the horizontal to the ballast, or slightly down towards it, but maintain your distance with the sprayer. The object is to wet it and saturate it.

What is in your sprayer is plain water. Now I know half the planet advocates "wet water" (water with a couple of drops of detergent in it), or an alcohol water mixture, or pure alcohol. So there I am spraying and I ask Mike how much detergent to put in the water. His response: "Rick, I stopped putting detergent in the water because I couldn't tell the difference when I added it and when I didn't. Since I couldn't tell the difference, I stopped adding it."

You will only want to spray three or four feet only, then move on after the glue/water mixture is eye dropper into the ballast. The mixture of white glue to water is 50/50. Again others will tell you to use matte medium, but the white glue water mixture has worked since the beginning of time. It is possible the earth is held together by white glue and water mixed together. Since this is the cheapest technique and it works, why muck with success.

This next part is important. You must establish a pattern of laying the glue down; its easy to miss a part. So I watched the master. First pass is the white glue/water between the ties, next pass is on the outside of the rail ties, next pass on the ballast beyound the rail ties, then lastly repeating this same procedure on the other side; so 5 passes in all - one in the middle, two on either side of the track.

We used kids eye droppers.

What I recommend, if you've never done this before is try an experiment on the first six inches you do. After you have done this experiment, it will be as though the scales fell from your eyes. For the first 6 inches, don't wet or saturate the ballast for the white glue/water mixture. Put on liberally some glue/water without any wetting agent. What you will discover is that the glue/water sits on top of the ballast without sinking in, also some ballast may float to the top of the glue/water bubble. Now with the glue sitting on top of the ballast, grab your sprayer and start spraying. You will find it takes a bit of spraying, but once the ballast really gets soaking wet, the glue/water will be sucked into the ballast.

When glue sits on top and won't go into the ballast, the ballast isn't wet enough.

Finally after the glue has dried, a day or two or three, go back and run your finger over all of it. You should discover that about 98 % of it is rock solid. You will probably run into a part that isn't securely glued and easily moves. So then you re-soak the ballast with water, then add your glue/water mixture again. And voilà your ballast will be glued solid.