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4x8 N scale Old West layout plan (that's now spinning out of control!)

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4x8 N scale Old West layout plan (that's now spinning out of control!)
Posted by pcarrell on Friday, June 23, 2006 6:50 PM
I was just goofing around last night and I came up with this track plan for a 4x8 N scale layout. All turnouts are a #7 and no curve is sharper then 15" on the main.

This evening I did some scenery for it. I just thought it had kind of an Old West "feel" to it, so thats the way I dressed it up.

I already have a track plan for myself, but I like doing it for fun (I know, I'm a sick pup!), so, what do you think?

Click to enlarge

Philip
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Friday, June 23, 2006 8:29 PM
The only thing I can think of as a problem is the lack of engines and rolling stock on N. There is the cheapo Bachman set...


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Posted by CanadianShield on Friday, June 23, 2006 8:39 PM
And the Atlas 2-6-0...
The MDC 2-8-0 and 2-6-0
Athearn Old time cars
Roundhouse Old Time Boxcars
Model power's 4-4-0

Whats not to love!

Canadian Shield

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Friday, June 23, 2006 8:57 PM
I had forgottten about the MDC's. But I had not herad about the Model Power and the Atlas. I had heard of an Atlas 4-4-0.

I stand corrected.


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Posted by pcarrell on Friday, June 23, 2006 9:23 PM
Chip, I knew you wouldn't be able to resist this. I'm out to convert you to N!

The MP 4-4-0 is a bit too new (1910ish?), but the Atlas 2-6-0 or the MDC twins would work real well on this.

All thats really a holdup is proper figures, but I guess you could find something, or modify something to work.
Philip
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, June 23, 2006 9:41 PM
Basic track plan has possibilities, just as it is.

Only thing I'd add is a couple of single-ended staging tracks under the mine (I assume) at the top left. (I'm also assuming that you plan to have access all the way around. If not, reaching the turnouts at top center could get to be an adventure.)

Actually, there's no reason this layout couldn't be built in HOn30 or HOn3, with some minor adjustment to track spacing.

Chuck
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Posted by dgwinup on Friday, June 23, 2006 9:46 PM
Phillip,

I like that layout! I'm not sure why you feel it is "Old West". Older, perhaps, but I think it would work for any period up to mid-20th century.

Having sidings at the top left and bottom right allows for expansion. The only thing I would change on scenery is to add more mountain in the upper left so the track could exit a tunnel directly onto a trestle. I've always thought that would look fantastic!

Since you're so good (and FAST) at doing these trackplans, how about doing a couple more that could be built as add-ons to this one? Maybe adding a second trestle next to the original one, forming a wye, like the Keddie Wye. That would be awesome!

And since you're already considering that for us, you may as well consider additional modules that could be added to extend the original around the room! I mean, don't stop while you're on a ROLL!!

Darrell, surreptitiously trying to get someone to design a layout for me, and quiet...for now
Darrell, quiet...for now
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Posted by pcarrell on Friday, June 23, 2006 9:58 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tomikawaTT

Basic track plan has possibilities, just as it is.

Only thing I'd add is a couple of single-ended staging tracks under the mine (I assume) at the top left. (I'm also assuming that you plan to have access all the way around. If not, reaching the turnouts at top center could get to be an adventure.)

Actually, there's no reason this layout couldn't be built in HOn30 or HOn3, with some minor adjustment to track spacing.

Chuck

Good points, all of them. And staging,.....I had thought about it, but I just couldn't find a place that seemed natural. I don't know how I missed that under the mine thing. Thats the spot for it. I think I'll give that a shot. Thanks!
Philip
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Posted by pcarrell on Friday, June 23, 2006 10:00 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup

Phillip,

I like that layout! I'm not sure why you feel it is "Old West". Older, perhaps, but I think it would work for any period up to mid-20th century.

Having sidings at the top left and bottom right allows for expansion. The only thing I would change on scenery is to add more mountain in the upper left so the track could exit a tunnel directly onto a trestle. I've always thought that would look fantastic!

Since you're so good (and FAST) at doing these trackplans, how about doing a couple more that could be built as add-ons to this one? Maybe adding a second trestle next to the original one, forming a wye, like the Keddie Wye. That would be awesome!

And since you're already considering that for us, you may as well consider additional modules that could be added to extend the original around the room! I mean, don't stop while you're on a ROLL!!

Darrell, surreptitiously trying to get someone to design a layout for me, and quiet...for now

You're crackin' me up man!

I like the ideas though. I'll have to play with them. (Now let's see,....the 1950's.....)
Philip
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Posted by pcarrell on Friday, June 23, 2006 10:10 PM
Oh, I forgot to add, all curves have easments too!
Philip
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Friday, June 23, 2006 10:16 PM
Phillip,

I was pretty sure you had a brand new layout to start.

You don't ahve a case of performance anxiety do you?


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Posted by pcarrell on Friday, June 23, 2006 10:21 PM
Actually Chip, I can't start it till the house is done being built. I guess I'm just stuck in track planning mode.
Philip
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, June 23, 2006 11:17 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup
I'm not sure why you feel it is "Old West".

In fact I think the opposite. It is a really nice layout, but it doesn't say old west to me. Too much stuff I think. Of course I guess I should ask what is considered old west - 1867-1890???

I think most towns simply had a single station for freight/mail/passenger directly on a single track. The "industries" (stock pens, team track, loading dock) were also placed on the main line. Even the loco servicing was done while it sat on the main.

I think the town in the lower center would have to represent a major city in the old west. Like Dodge City KS, which was a division point for the Santa Fe. A round house - wow. More likely a one or two stall loco shed, seems more old westi***o me.

Then the run around in the center. I think they would run around on the back track and pu***he cars all the way to whatever that industry is. And that makes me think - an industry with two tracks.. I don't know. I don't know many industries in the old west that were efficient enough to produce enough stuff to require to whole sidings to themself. I could be all wet but I think in the old west they ran the straight rail as far as possible cause they couldn't afford all those turnouts way out in the middle of no where. Oh yeah, and then it needs ties with round edges. Whack the tree. slice two sides flat and spike the rail. Sometimes with no balast.....
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Posted by CanadianShield on Friday, June 23, 2006 11:43 PM
Actually the Model Power 4-4-0 is based on an 1872 prototype according to Spookshow.

http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/mp440.html

Canadian Shield
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Posted by pcarrell on Saturday, June 24, 2006 12:28 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by CanadianShield

Actually the Model Power 4-4-0 is based on an 1872 prototype according to Spookshow.

http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/mp440.html

Canadian Shield

I didn't know that! I stand corrected!
Philip
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Posted by CraigN on Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:00 PM
About 15 years ago , I built a somewhat similar railroad. No roundhouse or a passing track in the middle, but it also included an oval going around the whole thing that was hidden except in the front. Also, my mining industries went into the middle of the layout instead of the outside.
It was a great little railroad that gave me hours of fun.

I really like your variation of it with one exeption:

After you leave your yard (traveling right to left) and go under the bridge, your train enters the tunnel and continues under your second loop. When it comes out from under that track, the grade has to be really steep to get up to the bridge.

Other than that , the plan looks awesome to me.

Craig
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Posted by ereimer on Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:44 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by CanadianShield

Actually the Model Power 4-4-0 is based on an 1872 prototype according to Spookshow.

http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/mp440.html

Canadian Shield


i'd like to see his source for that information , it doesn't look like any of the locos i've seen pictures of from that time period
this http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/jupiter.html looks like a 4-4-0 from the 1870's


edit: back on topic ...
really nice layout . it shows restraint in not adding so much track that it's a spaghetti bowl , but has enough track that it shows off the advantages of N over HO
nice work , if someone builds it they'll have fun . maybe you should save it for the next time MR has a layout design contest [:)]
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Posted by pcarrell on Saturday, June 24, 2006 10:02 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by CraigN

About 15 years ago , I built a somewhat similar railroad. No roundhouse or a passing track in the middle, but it also included an oval going around the whole thing that was hidden except in the front. Also, my mining industries went into the middle of the layout instead of the outside.
It was a great little railroad that gave me hours of fun.

Thank You

QUOTE: I really like your variation of it with one exeption:

After you leave your yard (traveling right to left) and go under the bridge, your train enters the tunnel and continues under your second loop. When it comes out from under that track, the grade has to be really steep to get up to the bridge.

Other than that , the plan looks awesome to me.

Craig

I figure about 2 1/2 - 3% grade, but it wouldn't be too big a problem if trains are short (like in the old west).
Philip
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Posted by pcarrell on Saturday, June 24, 2006 10:04 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by ereimer

QUOTE: Originally posted by CanadianShield

Actually the Model Power 4-4-0 is based on an 1872 prototype according to Spookshow.

http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/mp440.html

Canadian Shield


i'd like to see his source for that information , it doesn't look like any of the locos i've seen pictures of from that time period
this http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/jupiter.html looks like a 4-4-0 from the 1870's

I was thinking the same thing, but I was going to let it go. Maybe he knows something I don't. I know by the 1880's loco's were bigger and they were loosing that "Jupiter" look.


QUOTE: edit: back on topic ...
really nice layout . it shows restraint in not adding so much track that it's a spaghetti bowl , but has enough track that it shows off the advantages of N over HO
nice work , if someone builds it they'll have fun . maybe you should save it for the next time MR has a layout design contest [:)]

Maybe I will. Thanks!
Philip
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Posted by pcarrell on Saturday, June 24, 2006 10:05 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup
I'm not sure why you feel it is "Old West".

In fact I think the opposite. It is a really nice layout, but it doesn't say old west to me. Too much stuff I think. Of course I guess I should ask what is considered old west - 1867-1890???

I think most towns simply had a single station for freight/mail/passenger directly on a single track. The "industries" (stock pens, team track, loading dock) were also placed on the main line. Even the loco servicing was done while it sat on the main.

I think the town in the lower center would have to represent a major city in the old west. Like Dodge City KS, which was a division point for the Santa Fe. A round house - wow. More likely a one or two stall loco shed, seems more old westi***o me.

Then the run around in the center. I think they would run around on the back track and pu***he cars all the way to whatever that industry is. And that makes me think - an industry with two tracks.. I don't know. I don't know many industries in the old west that were efficient enough to produce enough stuff to require to whole sidings to themself. I could be all wet but I think in the old west they ran the straight rail as far as possible cause they couldn't afford all those turnouts way out in the middle of no where. Oh yeah, and then it needs ties with round edges. Whack the tree. slice two sides flat and spike the rail. Sometimes with no balast.....

Perhaps your right, maybe it is better suited to another location.
Philip
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Posted by pcarrell on Saturday, June 24, 2006 10:07 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup

Phillip,

I like that layout! I'm not sure why you feel it is "Old West". Older, perhaps, but I think it would work for any period up to mid-20th century.

Having sidings at the top left and bottom right allows for expansion. The only thing I would change on scenery is to add more mountain in the upper left so the track could exit a tunnel directly onto a trestle. I've always thought that would look fantastic!

Since you're so good (and FAST) at doing these trackplans, how about doing a couple more that could be built as add-ons to this one? Maybe adding a second trestle next to the original one, forming a wye, like the Keddie Wye. That would be awesome!

And since you're already considering that for us, you may as well consider additional modules that could be added to extend the original around the room! I mean, don't stop while you're on a ROLL!!

Darrell, surreptitiously trying to get someone to design a layout for me, and quiet...for now


OK, you asked for it. I had school today so I didn't have much time. I didn't go as fay with the scenery, but you get the idea....

How's this?

Philip
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Posted by dgwinup on Saturday, June 24, 2006 10:52 PM
OKAY!! Now we're getting somewhere!

I see you added that hidden staging under the mine area and took my suggestion of adding a wye. You put the wye past the mine siding (which is now a through line, I guess). I was thinking you could put it next to the trestle on the original part of the layout, curving away from the first trestle onto the addition. It could cross just below the mine and connect to the extended mine siding where you have the wye located now.

That's a pretty long extension on the left side. Nice track layout. Where would you go from there? Maybe a shorter extension that could connect to another module similar to the first or second module?

This is really looking like a layout that should be built!

More! More! We're still not satisfied!

(I am SOOOOOO envious! I can't get a single trackplan to work out on ANY of the CAD software! Must be my klutzy-ness!)

Darrell, it's so hard to be green - with ENVY!, and quiet...for now
Darrell, quiet...for now
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Posted by pcarrell on Saturday, June 24, 2006 11:10 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup

OKAY!! Now we're getting somewhere!

I see you added that hidden staging under the mine area and took my suggestion of adding a wye. You put the wye past the mine siding (which is now a through line, I guess).

Yeah, I mixed it up a bit.

QUOTE: I was thinking you could put it next to the trestle on the original part of the layout, curving away from the first trestle onto the addition. It could cross just below the mine and connect to the extended mine siding where you have the wye located now.

That would work too. I put it where I did on this one because I thought it would be interesting to have a dead ended wye high over another track. Probably more likely that would be out west somewhere, but I'm just playing around, so what the heck!

QUOTE: That's a pretty long extension on the left side. Nice track layout. Where would you go from there? Maybe a shorter extension that could connect to another module similar to the first or second module?

This is really looking like a layout that should be built!

More! More! We're still not satisfied!

More,....MORE!!!!! Not satasfied yet? You're insatiable!

Oh wait,...I see where this is going!

Tell ya what, why don't you just give me the dimentions of your basement and your givens and druthers, and we'll go from there.

QUOTE: (I am SOOOOOO envious! I can't get a single trackplan to work out on ANY of the CAD software! Must be my klutzy-ness!)

It's just that I'm familiar with the program and I save EVERYTHING!
Philip
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Posted by pcarrell on Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:21 AM
OK Darrell, quiet,....for now!

You haven't been so quiet lately.

Is this enough for you?

I decided to make the wye an interseting one, so I made it a scissor wye. You seldom see those modeled, and this is just for giggles, so lets throww caution into the wind, shall we?

Also, our trains now have a place to stretch their legs next to a creek.

Even less scenery then before, but the basic ground contours are there. You'll get the idea.

Is this enough to fill your basement yet Darrell?



PS - This is one heck of a "4 x 8"!!!! I think this thing might be a bit out of control?!? [:D]
Philip
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Posted by ukguy on Sunday, June 25, 2006 1:13 PM
hmmmm nice looking layout,,,,it makes my mind wander into the switching scales pondering mode I keep finding myself in.

One sugestion, after the train has 'stretched its legs' along the creek and reached its destination , I see a runaround in the middle of the section to get the loco back to the front of the train for the return journy, but maybe a small oldtime wooden turntable could appear at the end of one of those spurs to turn the loco around , I envisage something similar to the one to be seen on Bob Grech's layout. Or maybe I'm way off base.

Have fun & be safe,
Karl.
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Posted by CraigN on Sunday, June 25, 2006 2:37 PM
This one looks really nice too.

Here's a suggestion for those that might want some continuous running:

At the bottom right of your layout, you could have the track that goes into the building , continue on to a hidden track that comes out in the upper left section. Then just put your building on one of the other tracks.

Then when operating the railroad, don't use the hidden track at all.

Just a thought.
Craig
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Posted by pcarrell on Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:26 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by ukguy

hmmmm nice looking layout,,,,it makes my mind wander into the switching scales pondering mode I keep finding myself in.

I tend to do that when I see the wide selection of stuff you HO guy's have to pick from, but then I remember why I started in N in the first place: the scenery to trains ratio.

QUOTE: One sugestion, after the train has 'stretched its legs' along the creek and reached its destination , I see a runaround in the middle of the section to get the loco back to the front of the train for the return journy, but maybe a small oldtime wooden turntable could appear at the end of one of those spurs to turn the loco around , I envisage something similar to the one to be seen on Bob Grech's layout. Or maybe I'm way off base.

No, that would be cool!
Philip
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Posted by pcarrell on Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:29 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by CraigN

This one looks really nice too.

Here's a suggestion for those that might want some continuous running:

At the bottom right of your layout, you could have the track that goes into the building , continue on to a hidden track that comes out in the upper left section. Then just put your building on one of the other tracks.

Then when operating the railroad, don't use the hidden track at all.

Just a thought.
Craig

HEY!!!!! That is a great idea! How about somehow connecting that with the hidden staging to create a hidden staging / continuous loop design?
Philip
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Posted by pcarrell on Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:32 PM
I have noted some serious access issues with this plan. It was originally cocieved as a 4x8 with access on three sides. Since that time this monster has grown to incorporate a very large area. Perhaps some reevaluation is in order.
Philip
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:49 PM
Careful. The Old West has a way of sucking your creative imagination into compulsion. Don't be surprized if your basement layout turns into a Central Pacific empire and Maine into a pleasant memory.


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