Proto 2000 0-6-0 and the DCC saga

[cob1385]

I have a p2k 0-6-0 and I am trying to convert the engine to DCC as per the conversion instructions that are included with the engine. I have changed both the tender light and headlight to 12volts/50 milliamps and removed the old circuit board from the 8 pin socket and added an MRC AD350 decoder (wrapped in electrical tape). The only problem is that when I place the engine on my Bachmann EZ track layout, using the Bachmann EZ Command DCC system, the engine moves and the headlights work BUT the motor makes a horrible buzzing noise. I have heard of this occuring when a DC controlled locomotive is placed on a DCC layout but I can't find the source of the problem. After a few short moves forward and backward the engine stops working completely (the engine does run fine when the decoder is removed and the old circuit board is re-installed). I have contacted Life-Like and MRC only to be told that they couldn't help and my local hobby shop feels the same way. If anyone could recommend any advice I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks for your time,
cob1385

[selector]

Go through your manual for the decoder and look for a CV that controls the impulse frequency to the motor. It has a huge range of numerical settings that you can play with and hopefully get it more quiet. In case that nets you nothing, I have a Sountrax 100LC in my 0-6-0, and no setting (CV #9 on that decoder) makes it very quiet. It growls and groans, but was like glass when on DC.

[cob1385]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Go through your manual for the decoder and look for a CV that controls the impulse frequency to the motor. It has a huge range of numerical settings that you can play with and hopefully get it more quiet. In case that nets you nothing, I have a Sountrax 100LC in my 0-6-0, and no setting (CV #9 on that decoder) makes it very quiet. It growls and groans, but was like glass when on DC.

Thanks "selector" for the idea! I looked through my CV options but I don't know which one will work.

The list includes:
CV1 Short address
CV2 Start Voltage
CV3 Acceleration
CV4 Deceleration
CV5 Max voltage
CV29 Basic configuration
CV7 Manufacturer version number
CV8 Manufacturer ID
CV17 Long address upper byte
CV18 Long address lower byte
CV19 Advanced consist address
CV33 Forward headlight
CV34 Reverse headlight
CV35-42 are Functions 1-8
CV62 Ditch flash rate
CV64 Light effect setting
CV105 User indentifier number
CV106 User indentifier number

If one of these is a possiblity, how do I play around within the range?

Thanks,
cob1385

[NZRMac]

Is the motor wiring somehow not connected to the decoder, and it's getting AC instead of being decoder controlled. Check all the connections!!

Ken.

[tstage]

cob1385,

How loud is "horrible"? Are we talking obnoxious, cover your ears "horrible"? Or, is it just a mild, annoying kind of buzzing sound?

If its the latter, you need to check to see whether or not that particular decoder (you stated the MRC AD350) is designated as a "silent" decoder or not. I have a non-silent decoder in my P2K S1 and it emits a low and persisitent, what I'll call, "growl" - evident at the lowest or crawling speeds. It sorta bothered me at first. But then, I thought it made the lil' diesel sound more "tough" - since diesels (and steamers) did make noise when you fired them up.

With the Bachmann EZC, you won't be able to change any of the CVs, as others have kindly listed above, because the CVs are not accessible with the Bachmann EZC. You'll need a more sophisticated DCC system to actually change them..

Tom

P.S. Here's the description that I got off of a distributor's web site on the MRC AD350 decoder:

1.5 amps, 2-digit (1-127) or 4-digit (1-9999) addressing, advanced consisting (CV19), 14, 28 and 128 speed steps. 6 functions (F0-F4) with MRC Light Effects, (Rule 17 lighting, ditch lights, mars light, strobe light). Features easy programming, adjustable start voltage, momentum and top voltage, programming on the main, and comes complete with NMRA 8-pin plug.

I don't see any mention of it being silent so that may be the issue.

[SpaceMouse]

I had an Proto F1A that acted like that and found a solder bridge on the collar. Check it with a multi-meter or continuity tester.

[cob1385]

Thanks to all of you for your tips.

NZRMac, I am in the process of checking the wiring connections, so far so good.

SpaceMouse, your idea for a mulit-meter to test the engine for continuity should tell me if I have a problem.

tstage, what type of silent decoders do you recommend? The buzzing that I am hearing is only "horrible" because the engine runs so silent in DC. Will the silent decoder eliminate all of the noise?

Thanks for your help,
cob1385

[selector]

If your manufacturer adopted the NMRA protocol for decoders (DCC), then I figure CV#9 should also do it for you; it doesn't seem to appear in your list above, but that may be a good thing. Get ahold of the manufacturer and see what they say.

[rrinker]

The MRC decoders are NOT silent running. They WILL make an annoying buzz on some motors. Plus with the Bachmann DCC system, there is no way to adjust motor control CV's.

--Randy

[selector]

Well, there ya have it! From Thuh Man, Hisself. [:D]

Randy, should he assume that he can manipulate CV 9 on that deocder and alter the effects...if he had the system to do it?

[rrinker]

According to his posted list, no, there is no CV9 to adjust in that decoder. I don't have the manual for one, but if there's no high-frequency drive there's not much that can be done. It's possible to smooth out the pulse drive with an electronic circuit, but it would be far easier and cheaper to just get a better decoder.
The biggest problem with achieving great running on the Bachmann sysem is that even the really good decoders have adjustments, and different motors sometimes require different settings for the best performance. Out of the box, even a decent silent decoder like an NCE D13SR which can be had in quantity for < $12 each (which begs the question - why buy an MRC decoder?) will work FAR better. Depends on how fanatical you want to be about it - some tweaks even to a great decoder can make a noticeable improvement, case in point the Spectrum E33 electric. I put the D13SRJ in it and the low end out of the box was horrible - mainly due to the not so great Bachmann mechanism. A little tweaking with the 3 CVs that NCE gives you for this and it works a lot better (this is in addition to the start voltage).

--Randy

[oleirish]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I had an Proto F1A that acted like that and found a solder bridge on the collar. Check it with a multi-meter or continuity tester.

Chip
When did you get 5 stars[^][:D]
JIM

[oleirish]

In genral is there an input voltage limit on de-coders?
Reason is I want to use some N-Scale decoders in my HO engines,do to space saving,can this be done??[?]
JIM

[rrinker]

All decoders can generally handle the usual DCC limit of 18-20v (with some headroom above the NMRA spec). The major exception being Soundtraxx. For HO you shouldn't be runnign above about 14V to the track
The bigger concern is the motor current draw. If the stall current of your HO loco is below the rating of the N scale (or even Z scale) decoder, there will be no problem. I don't think anyone makes an N scale decoder than cna handle old open fram 2+ amp motors, but there are plenty of N scale size decoders that can handle 1.5 amps.

--Randy

[oleirish]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

All decoders can generally handle the usual DCC limit of 18-20v (with some headroom above the NMRA spec). The major exception being Soundtraxx. For HO you shouldn't be runnign above about 14V to the track
The bigger concern is the motor current draw. If the stall current of your HO loco is below the rating of the N scale (or even Z scale) decoder, there will be no problem. I don't think anyone makes an N scale decoder than cna handle old open fram 2+ amp motors, but there are plenty of N scale size decoders that can handle 1.5 amps.

--Randy

Thanks for info,all my engines have can motors, a mixture of athern and kato W/two round house shays that I put can motors in.So I think I'am OK

JIM