Is this the best arrangement?

[jacon12]

I have an area where the track from my future sawmill comes down to join the main track and I decided I needed a place to park the log or cut lumber cars to wait for the mainline locos. This is the area and the cars would be coming down the track marked "up to sawmill".

The incline starts about a foot to the left, out of the photo.
1-What can I do, if anything to improve on this area.
2- When operations start, how would the locos handle this because the way it is now a Shay pulling cars to the yard couldn't back them into the yard.
3- How would the mainline locos pick the cars up?
4- Have I created a monster or an place for interesting switching?
BTW, mainline traffic normally travels from left to right, unless I install something to reverse them.
Jarrell
Ok, I got rid of the wye and the little one track yard leading off to the right in the photo. I then extended the branch about 9 more inches from the turnout and installed a left hand turnout in that area. Adding the 9 inches moved the entire branch line closer to the wall but I can live with it (I could dog leg it back out if I need to). Now when the engine brings the cars down the branch it can back them into the small 'yard' . I think I can get another siding in the yard also so one for loads and one for empties. I still don't know how to turn the engine around so that it would be going up the branch head first and even if I did I would have the problem again up on the hill so I guess she'll just back up the hill pushing the empties.
My good friend Elmo "Bubba" Quackenbu***old me to "just pick the danged thang up, turn it around and set it back down again, problem solved". He didn't understand when I told him that was a no no.
Jarrell

[SpaceMouse]

Shays both push and pull logs. Either the Shay would pu***he cars down the hill or you need a runaround in you "yard". The runaround would alos solve your engine's pick-up problem. Or your "yard' could point the other direction.

[ericboone]

Some sort of run around track would do or connect the end of the interchange "yard" track out of the photo to the mainline too.

[tstage]

Jarrell,

What about making the yard a little bit longer and have a 30 degree crossover (between the two turnouts) that will give you access to the yard directly from the mainline, rather than having to perform a "Z" manuever to get the cars to and/or from the yard? I wouldn't think you'd have to add much more to the length of the yard. Maybe a foot?

Another one of those hair-brain ideas of mine...

Tom

[markpierce]

I assume you intend that the mill to be a major industry generating a lot of traffic. I'd suggest at least 2 tracks in the "yard" so you can pick up empties to take to the mill immediately after havingg dropped of loads for the mainline train. Better yet, have three tracks in a double-ended yard so the mill switcher can run around the drop-off and pick-up tracks without fouling the main. Of course, a run-around track at the mainline implies you'd have one at the mill end assuming you want the mill switcher always in front of the train. A mill run-around isn't necessary at the mill, but would be terribly handy at the mainline junction.

[Anonymous]

Well as I see it your crew is safer pulling empty cars up the hill than having a loaded train pushing them down hill. The main line is safer having your storage yard dead end rather than joining to the main line if one or more cars break free coming down the hill. IF it was me I would switch the switches so the main line connected to the left of the wye instead of to the right. That eliminates the fancy switching to get loaded cars to the mainline and still a runaway will derail at the end of the storage yard and not foul the main. This is also cheaper than adding another switch or a run around, the stockholders will appreceate that.

[markpierce]

Runaways are why derails were invented. One should be placed on the track to the mill not far from the yard. You could even build a fancier one with a full turnout leading off into a stretch of sand to catch the runaways. Most railroads laid out track to make switching simple and easy (as in double-ended interchange trackage), unless geography interfered. Switching "puzzles" are rare prototypes.

[jacon12]

Thank you for all the fine ideas. I can see that I'm going to have to disconnect some track and try new arrangments. As you can see below..

I don't have a lot of room in that area, not on the side of the tracks where the sawmill track is now, for a 2 or 3 track yard.
I need to think this over "I would switch the switches so the main line connected to the left of the wye instead of to the right." Maybe something like that would work good.
Thanks for the help.
Jarrell

[ndbprr]

Add a lefthand turnout between the wyer siotch and the mainline switch and run a second track parallel to the first siding. At the right end add a nother left hand turnout into your existing siding with a tail long enough for the shay to clear the turnout. Then it can escape and also afford even more storage like ins and outs on the two tracks. I'd do it that way as your tracks appear to have too much room between them in my opinion.

[rayhippard]

Jarrell,
Go see my suggesstions on your thread "QUESTIONS ON SOME THINGS". I think I may have solved many problems that you may have with your present trackage.
Ray--------Great Northern fan.

[rayhippard]

Jarrell,
Sorry, got confused, thought this was lumber company track, but still go see my thoughts for the lumber company track. I think you may like it.
Ray-------Great Northern fan.

[dehusman]

The engine would be on the bottom end of the cut going both ways up and down the branch. The engine would be facing up the branch. You wan the engine on the downhill end so there won't be any run aways on the grade, either loaded or empty. You want the engine facing uphill so the water in the boiler naturally runs back down over the firebox.

Depending on what your operation is, the loads would come down the hill and uncouple on the branch, then the logging engine would pull into the yard. The mainline train gong from left to right in the picture would stop, uncouple the engines and a cut of empty log or lumer cars, pull by the switch shove back on the branch, pick up the loads, set them over to its train, then set the empty cars to go back up the branch on the branch. The mainline engines would get back on thier train and depart. The logging engine would come out of the yard, couple into the empties and shove them up the branch to spot. The way you have your "yard"it is pretty useless as a yard. You would be better off with a track parallel to the main between the main and the branch as your "yard" instead of what you have.

Your track design suffers from a glaring lack of a run around. There is no place to put a train in a different direction and there is no way to run around anything anywhere so there is really no way to switch all your industries. Put in a runaround in the "to be added later location and one at the branch junction. With two sidings you can run two trains at the same time.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

Jarrell,

I agree with every one about the run around thing (see my post on questions).

In this instance will the shay be able to turn around at the mill?? If not it will probably push cars up the grade and pull them back down. You could solve one of your problems here by moving the mainline switch farther to the right in your diagram and making the siding parallel to the track heading up to the mill by flipping the wye. This means that a loco can pull in head first to the siding, pull out a cut of cars. Back out and then pu***hem up the hill. Backing down the cars are pushed back into the siding headfirst. You will still need a run around on the mainline depending on the direction of travel of the approaching train.

[markpierce]

Looks to me you have a minimum of a foot's width for an interchange, so there is plenty of space for a three-track yard. You'd probably need a curved turnout on the mainline where it makes a 180. Another alternative would be for "trackage rights" for the lumber train to interchange at a small yard you could set up on the peninsula after taking the mainline loop.