making (deep) water

[Anonymous]

This is our first layout, and I've read (my layout building partner is only , so his reading ability still needs a little help) a number of posts here on making lakes, but still need a little help.

I've read where people use Woodland Scenics "Realistic Water" (which sounds great in that it's a one-part liquid, and I've read where people use the two part Envirotex.

Why would someone use one over the other?

In either case, we have a couple of "deep areas" in our lake... places where we plan on emdedding objects in the lak and want them mostly/completely submerged. Can we do this with eiher one? Seems like the Realistic Water says only 1/8" deep and it says only one coat on the bottle... can we di deep lakes with either product (and how?)

Lastly is sealing the lake bed. We have foam underneath, and then we used plaster cloth (which was then painted with latex paint). We still see some little "holes" where we didn't get hte plaster absolutely smoothed (we see the squares of gauze in the plaster cloth).

Is it advised to use something to fill in these areas (the lake bottom) before using either product? Something like Woodland Scenics "Flex Paste" or something else (and then repainting)?

We've read a number of books on scenery, and it seems like they still lack some critical stuff for true beginners like us.

Thanks from both of us.

MikeA

[tstage]

Mike,

You should paint the lake bottom BEFORE you pour in your realistic water. Start out with a lighter sand or tan color along the edges or shallow areas and gradually get darker in the areas that you want to be the deep parts of your lake. Your lake will (in reality) still be flat but give the "illusion" that the bottom get deepers as you move out from the shoreline. If you apply too thick a layer of "water", then you run the risk of trapping bubbles as the top cures faster than the bottom.

Tom

[Anonymous]

Thanks. Understand painting the lake bottom before pouring, but was wondering about the depth. If I pour small depths, over periods of ays would that take care of the bubbles?

How deep can one make a lake (with several pours)?

[selector]

Yes, seal the lake bottom AND sides, partway up, with a putty or caulk. I used a wood putty powder, mixed per directions, and then spread it as thinly as I could while still affording a seal to the liquid that would eventually be poured over it.

Once it was dry, and sanded reasonably flat (no high ridges) then you painstakingly experiment with paints and shades of colours to get a realistic approximation of what a deepening lake bottom would look like. Once you are happy with the look, then use a two part epoxy or Realistic Water. I used a two part epoxy that had to be mixed in precise quantities for a couple of minutes, then transferred to a second vessel and mixed another minute scraping the bottom and sides all the time to get the mix right. I found that it was not necessary to rush with the pour. Bubbles did form, including during the mixing, but the liquid cleared before I had to pour. Bubbles reformed after the pour, but blowing on them from about four inches off the surface, or using a hot air dryer on high heat, LOW FAN, and swept about eight inches off the surface did a good job of getting the bubbles to disappear.

I have no experience with Realistic Water.

As for the deep parts, you could be in for a lot of work. You'll have to do multiple pours to get the depth you want, and any one of those could give you grief. Better to raise the lake bed flat and shallow, and place thinned objects on the painted surface. That way, you can still get a reasonable depth effect of submerged objects, but you can save a lot of trouble and expense by doing one or two pours only.

One other hint: the Nu-Lustre 55 epoxy that I used (www.swingpaints.com) worked very well by heating both bottles in hot water for a few minutes before mixing. Mixed and poured really well, and the bubbles were much easier to deal with.

If you need more help, pleae ask. Others will do what they can.

-Crandell

[bogp40]

I have been using WS Realistic water on some smaller ponds and streams lately. These areas were completely sceniced before the pour. The Realistic water can only be poured in small amounts and no thicker than 1/8". I tried pouring thicker- it remained cloudy and took weeks to dry. For any large areas- water front, rivers, lakes or any deep pour, I would use the Envirotex 2 part resin. The resin will level out and become flat almost glasslike. Any surface textures waves and ripples need to be applied after it cures. Gloss medium or WS Water Effects would do. A hint when working with the Envirotex- Small bubbles are eliminated by gently blowing on the surface. In extreme cases use a hair drier on lowest setting. Branches, logs barrels tires etc can be placed before or after pour.
Bob K.

[Seamonster]

I poured two layers of WS Realistic Water with no trouble. I kept the layers thin, as they recommend, and gave them quite a few days to dry. I embedded rocks in the Water. But first, I painted the river bed as Tom said, as the depth comes from the illusion of depth created by the paint. And make sure the area is completely water-tight or it *will* leak.

[ukguy]

I used the two part epoxy 20min set time, I also found that heating it slightly improved the mixing pouring quality/ease (briefly in the microwave). as Crandal says, pour SLOWLY mix SLOWLY to avoid making bubbles, but if any do appear use a hair drier or blow across the surface to raise them out.

As for the depth, I did several layer pours as my base was not truely level, this worked seamlessly with no problems or visibility of the layers.

I have seen a couple of layouts where the epoxy is made up to a much thicker depth although mine is only around 1/8 to 1/4" deep.

For sealing the base I simply painted it to where I was happy and then gave it a coat of hi-gloss poly. This surprisingly looked quite good and gave a good Idea of how the finish would look incase any changes were needed before the pour as the epoxy is pretty permanent and I would guess hard to remove/fix later.


Take a look at the 'articles' here ... http://www.lauriegreen.net/

also good advice at:-

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/4x8/
http://www.mrscenery.com/
http://siskiyou.railfan.net/model/constructionNotes/roads.html
http://www.calfreight.net/page50.html
http://www.trainweb.org/danderso/completen.html

Good luck and best wishes, let us know how it goes.
Karl.

[scole100]

I read an article about trying something like this. They recomended painting the lake bottom as TSTAGE described above. They then planted the submerged objects at the lake bottom. Then they covered the entire area with a sheet of glass. The glass was blended into into the shoreline. Finally a thin layer of epoxy was poured onto the glass to create ripples/waves. I believe the the article was in Finescale Modelor. www.finescale.com is the website.
Hope this helps.

[selector]

That is an interesting approach, scole100, one worth seeing.

I would caution against the use of glass, though, unless it could: a) be securely fastened in the event that a layout must be relocated <and would that compromise the visual effect if 'glued' somehow?>; and b) glass is heavy, and would make a mobile layout difficult to handle.

[Anonymous]

What about the EZ Water from WS? I read you just heat it on the stove and pour? Anybody used this?

[ukguy]

I tried it first jshrade, did NOT like it, you have to heat it up quite a bit to pour it, its like handling molten plastic, not fun to do. when I poured it anything porous I had placed in the river bed released air subsequently producing bubbles. it also had an effect on the river base paint. Maybe I did it wrong but I wont be trying it again to find out.

Have fun & be safe
Karl.

[Seamonster]

I agree with ukguy. I tried E-Z Water and didn't like it. I heated it in a tin can on the stove and by the time I got the can downstairs to the layout it was starting to harden. I found it very critical of the temperature (the instructions warn of this) and it was turning brown from too much heat. The finished product just didn't look right. The only good thing about it was that it pulled right up when I got rid of it. Some people have had better success melting it in place with a heat gun, but I don't have one so that wasn't an option. After that experience I tried WS Realistic Water and it worked fine, was extremely easy to use, and looked good.

[tstage]

Bob,

Why do I find it amusing that you (Seamonster) would be commenting on a post entitled "making (deep) water"? I don't know....

Tom

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jshrade

What about the EZ Water from WS? I read you just heat it on the stove and pour? Anybody used this?

Avoid this stuff (EZ Water) at all costs. It turns immediately an amber color, dries with bubbles that can only be removed with an extremely hot heat gun, dries hard as a rock, shrinks away from the banks within a few months, and cracks at temperature changes or the slightest mishandeling.

As for Realistic Water, this is a much better product. Yes you should pour no more than 1/8" at a time, but if you let each pour set up completely you should be able to pour as many layers as you wish. I've personally pours it as deep as 3/8" in four pours with great success. I prefer to simlate depth with paint and use thinner total amountw of this product, but in one location along the edge of the layout the deeper area was demanded, and the final effect was beautiful.

Ron

[Anonymous]

is to pour from the HIGHEST elevation to the lake/streambed. As the epoxy, etc., pours out it gets narrower and narrower and release the bubbles BEFORE they get to the scenery. Just a little tip which works.

[Seamonster]

Tom, according to my daughter, I live in a swamp. You figure it out. [:D]