DCC wiring?

[selector]

Toldja! [:D]

[rrinker]

Yup - I like simple. I started out witha rather elaborate scheme to control my Tortoise switch motors, but ae gone back to amore simple idea.
The problem I have is that at some point, I owuld liek to have a CTC panel to control he mainline turnouts and signals. A computer will definitely be involved. But my father-in-law doesn't want to have to fire up a computer when he wants to run trains (shhhh...don't tell him there's a CPU in the DCC command station as well as each decoder..). But I want to have the mainline turnouts locked out unless the DS unlocks them for local control. Aftr looking at all sorts of circuit options, I finaly found a Bruce Chubb idea in one of the C/MRI articles, which involves nothing more at this point than installing 2 resistors for each Tortoise, cheap enough. When I end up interfacing to the computer system - a simple open collector output will allow computer enabling of the local toggle, with the toggle defaulted to enabled if the software isn't running.
I just finished the mechanical assembly of my first panel. I really need to get it hooked up so I can run trins other than reaching under the layout and moving the Tortoises by hand. I need to get a few pictures of it, I posted the layout for it that I did in Visio. I took two pieces of clear acrylic, taped the pattern in place and drilled the holes for toggles and LEDs. Then I scuffed up the back plate with fine sandpaper and painted it flat black (still is slightly shiny - I hate to think wht it would be like had I NOT scuffed it), and printed out the pattern on heavy cardstock. Black piece, cardstock, clear piece, and it's all held together by the toggle switches. I'll build a small frame to mount it in to fasten to the layout after I get it all wired.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

"Sometimes, the low-tech solution is the best! An odd statement, coming from a system engineer. Adelie"

I heartily disagree, a GOOD engineer knows that simplicity, which usually means low-tech, is both the most reliable AND the least likely to screw up! Fewer parts to fail, and fewer steps to potentially screw up in either the installation or the operation of the system. You probably know this all along, but it goes against what MOST people think of an engineer, right?

I'm an electric power engineer and it's a continuous battle to simplify things and to remove the human element for the installation and operation.

I'm building my layout right now after several years of designing and having to "finish everything else" before I could start it. All of the turnout controls will be on a fascia-mounted control panel with a track diagram, minitature toggle switches, and bi-color LED's to indicate switch position.

Now my wife's wondering if I can finish it in a month? MAYBE run a few trains in a coulple of months....

Mark in Utah

[Adelie]

I like fascia-mounted switches for turnouts, too. It is definitely a lot easier, particularly if you are following the train around the layout. To me, the stationary decoder option only makes sense if you intend to control them primarily from a PC through control software. There are pluses and minuses to that, too.

Sometimes, the low-tech solution is the best! An odd statement, coming from a system engineer.

Of course, my empire is stuck in 1958, so having somebody sitting "hundreds of miles away" throwing switches remotely is less prototypical, particularly for a railroad the size of the Bunter Ridge!

[rrinker]

I would not hook a bunch of extra stuff to the DCC bus. This only takes away power to run trains. If you are installing signals - if you are making an operating system, it may hook to the DCC bus for some control, but most of them also hook up to some other bus. If you just power signals from a DCC stationary decoder - control might be a bit limited. There might be software that can work like that. Most complete signalling solutions use an alternative bus to communicate from the occupency detectors to the signal drivers - like the C/MRI or the Digitrax SE8C. They generally do not draw power from there - rather they have their own power connection which powers the board and the connected signals, the bus connection is simply for data transmission.
I a not a big fan of operating turnouts from stationary decoders - no matter what DCC system, it just isn't intuitive to operate, and far more complicated than simple fascia mounted switches. However, if you go that route, I would put the stationary decoders on a seperate power district, that way if there is a short on the track, the stationary decoders still have power and you can throw switches.

--Randy

[Adelie]

I would keep everything off the DCC buss except DCC-related stuff. Like Byron said, signals qualify if the DCC system is controlling them. For Digitrax, that involves block occupancy detectors and signal decoders. I haven't started installing signals yet, but the block occupancy detectors seem to work quite well. Some things, like switch machines, can be connected via stationary decoders.

The potential issues of drawing current from the buss at the expense of locomotives plus the possibility of putting something out there that could "dirty up" the DCC signal has always been a concern of mine. Particularly when other sources of AC and DC power are available fairly cheaply.

My grand plan is to run an AC power buss around the layout separate from the DCC buss. Things like lighting and such can tap into that buss through fascia-mounted switches near their location. Nothing on that buss will care all that much if the power is extremely clean, and there is no embedded signal to foul up, either.

By the way, Zach, looking at your web site, it appears we are modeling the same geographic area.

[cuyama]

If you are planning to use the DCC system to control the signals (as with the latest Digitrax offerings), it probably makes sense to power and control them both from the DCC buss.

If you are using a different method fo controlling the signals (contacts on turnout moters, etc.), you may find it easier in the long run to power the signals from a separate power supply and distribution system.

Since the DCC system puts voltage on the buss and the rails all the time, it's tempting to use it to power various items, but you'll want to keep track of the current drawn by the engines, lighted passenger cars, and any accessories being powered by a single booster. The current capacity is based on the DCC booster.

Regards,

Byron
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[Anonymous]

The type of accessories would be DC signals. You can get them at a hobbyshop.

[Anonymous]

I am simply using an old DC transformer for my accessories, switches... and I use the DCC system for the rails only. I am using a Lenz system with a 90 and 100 controller.

[Adelie]

What type of accessories are we talking about, Zach?

[selector]

No answer yet? I can't help (sorry), but Randy Rinker will undoubtedly get back to you sometime very soon. He's da Man.

[Anonymous]

Hello!
I have a question. I was wondering, how do you add accessories to the dcc bus? I know you have to connect the wires, but is there a certain way to. Does the accessory draw power from your layout if it's to big?
Thanks!
zachar