Hello All,
Here's another one from the MR FB page...
CSX Ridgecrest
As Cuyama (Byron) posted,
cuyamaWith a little more space, I would probably add a little length beyond each of the end runarounds...so one would want to adjust the tracks for the desired indutries (SIC).
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Doughless JDawg Thanks all for the reply's. The layout will be around nine feet long, two feet wide, with a slight addition on one end which will and a 1*2 area. The layout will be set in the mid-late transition era or the 60's. Either way, smaller 40-50 ft cars with smaller locos. I've considered a downtown/industrial complex scene or an engine facility with all the paraphernalia, but I'll be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the structure on top of structure look. I do love the look of an engine facility, but it would take up lots of space, and I'm afraid I would be dissatisfied with the abundance of engines but lack of cars. My working plan is to model a branch line terminus. This way I can model a small yard with minimal engine servicing, while still having lots of room for various industries. My biggest problem is the actual desiging of the track. I'm looking at satilite phoyos and I like what is see, but either it just doesn't work for the layout or it does not scale down much. This is mostly what I need help with, the actual designing. I use SCARM to get fast gratification of an idea, but even that is running dry. You've compiled a list of wants that seem to conflict with each other. "Various" industries (structures), a small terminus yard, and small engine service is quite a bit to fit into a small space without it creating that structure on structure look, IMO. Consider three large industries that gets various cars for the variety you want, and marshalling yard for moving loads and empties of various cars through those industries. One small enginehouse at the end of any long spur that's simply there to serve the complex....no terminus (those tend to be bigger yards and facilities). A long 9 foot track at the front of the layout could be the set out track for the industiral switcher to pick up and set out cars to/for the branch line local. Maybe woodchip hoppers and tankers with glues and chemicals would be IN loads, boxcars of plywood out. Hoppers of cement in, boxcars of concrete blocks out. Maybe include a farm feed and supply. A few grain hoppers in. A smaller hopper of granularized fertilizer in, a LPG tank car in. Empties out. Thats about 6 different types cars serving only three industries. Each industry could look a little bigger and more realistic and leave enough room for some open space to avoid that crowded urban look. The plywood plant and block plant could have short string of 5 or 6 cars of each variety from time to time. Larger industries tend to have longer spurs so you can have longer cuts of cars, which look better than shorter cuts, JMO. There are a number of HO scale shelf layouts pictured on the net that can help you get started.
JDawg Thanks all for the reply's. The layout will be around nine feet long, two feet wide, with a slight addition on one end which will and a 1*2 area. The layout will be set in the mid-late transition era or the 60's. Either way, smaller 40-50 ft cars with smaller locos. I've considered a downtown/industrial complex scene or an engine facility with all the paraphernalia, but I'll be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the structure on top of structure look. I do love the look of an engine facility, but it would take up lots of space, and I'm afraid I would be dissatisfied with the abundance of engines but lack of cars. My working plan is to model a branch line terminus. This way I can model a small yard with minimal engine servicing, while still having lots of room for various industries. My biggest problem is the actual desiging of the track. I'm looking at satilite phoyos and I like what is see, but either it just doesn't work for the layout or it does not scale down much. This is mostly what I need help with, the actual designing. I use SCARM to get fast gratification of an idea, but even that is running dry.
Thanks all for the reply's. The layout will be around nine feet long, two feet wide, with a slight addition on one end which will and a 1*2 area. The layout will be set in the mid-late transition era or the 60's. Either way, smaller 40-50 ft cars with smaller locos.
I've considered a downtown/industrial complex scene or an engine facility with all the paraphernalia, but I'll be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the structure on top of structure look. I do love the look of an engine facility, but it would take up lots of space, and I'm afraid I would be dissatisfied with the abundance of engines but lack of cars.
My working plan is to model a branch line terminus. This way I can model a small yard with minimal engine servicing, while still having lots of room for various industries. My biggest problem is the actual desiging of the track. I'm looking at satilite phoyos and I like what is see, but either it just doesn't work for the layout or it does not scale down much. This is mostly what I need help with, the actual designing. I use SCARM to get fast gratification of an idea, but even that is running dry.
You've compiled a list of wants that seem to conflict with each other. "Various" industries (structures), a small terminus yard, and small engine service is quite a bit to fit into a small space without it creating that structure on structure look, IMO.
Consider three large industries that gets various cars for the variety you want, and marshalling yard for moving loads and empties of various cars through those industries. One small enginehouse at the end of any long spur that's simply there to serve the complex....no terminus (those tend to be bigger yards and facilities). A long 9 foot track at the front of the layout could be the set out track for the industiral switcher to pick up and set out cars to/for the branch line local.
Maybe woodchip hoppers and tankers with glues and chemicals would be IN loads, boxcars of plywood out.
Hoppers of cement in, boxcars of concrete blocks out.
Maybe include a farm feed and supply. A few grain hoppers in. A smaller hopper of granularized fertilizer in, a LPG tank car in. Empties out.
Thats about 6 different types cars serving only three industries. Each industry could look a little bigger and more realistic and leave enough room for some open space to avoid that crowded urban look.
The plywood plant and block plant could have short string of 5 or 6 cars of each variety from time to time. Larger industries tend to have longer spurs so you can have longer cuts of cars, which look better than shorter cuts, JMO.
There are a number of HO scale shelf layouts pictured on the net that can help you get started.
Ok. Well, engine servicing would be nothing more than a track with fuel. Basically somewhere to park em. Then, the small yard will be merged with one large industry, likely a small paper mill. Farther along the line will be the remaining industries, but I use the term loosy. They will likely be 2-3 businesses along a single spur. There will be a large paper complex, but few buildings anywhere else.
JJF
Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing.
Yesterday is History.
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present.
- Douglas
I forgot that I had published an article on 2X9 options in HO. But I think the track plan that I linked here is the best of that bunch.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
A number of options in HO 2X9. A couple of folks have built versions of this one.
With a little more space, I would probably add a little length beyond each of the end runarounds. This was designed to fit a specific set of on-hand structure kits, so one would want to adjust the tracks for the desired indutries.
Good luck with your layout.
Edit: Not sure why the graphic appears soft-focus – click for a clear image.
Byron
JDawgThe layout will be around nine feet long, two feet wide, with a slight addition on one end which will and a 1*2 area. The layout will be set in the mid-late transition era or the 60's.
Thank you for the info on the approximate space you have to work with.
This just came up on the MR FB page...
HO Scale Tar Branch
It seems that this basic track plan could be expanded to fit your space.
Then it would be a matter of plugging in the industries and scenery you feel most comfortable with.
Another option would be to base your track plan on the John Allen "Time Saver".
The legs of this track plan can be extended to other industries in your given space.
Personally, I would consider a switching track plan based on brick making.
The raw materials would arrive in; depending on the state of processing, open or covered hoppers to a mixing facility along with aggregates in other hoppers and tanker cars.
If the materials arrive in raw form then a cement-making facility could also be incorporated into the track plan.
The finished brick would leave in boxcars or tarped loads on flatcars.
This next suggestion would be better set in the 1960s...
I grew up near the McDonald Douglas plant at the Long Beach, California, airport.
There were numerous "sub-industries" that made components for the assembly of airplanes around the main factory that were rail served.
Many of these were based on plastics and resin-based fiberglass components that arrived in air-slide hoppers and tanker cars.
One end of your track plan could be based on the receiving of the materials needed for each individual sub-industry.
The other end could be a staging yard for these materials and components waiting to move to the MDD assembly line.
A third trackage could represent the movement of finished, unassembled, aircraft moving from the factory to the end-user.
Many photos have been posted of oversized loads of airplane fuselages and wings moving by rail.
All, point-to-point.
Then there are coal transfer facilities...
Perhaps a narrow gage to standard gage transfer point with refueling- -steam & diesel sidings...???
NHTXI would first determine which type of freight cars I would prefer to see. This would help determine the era being replicated.
MisterBeasleyConsider connected industries.
Great points on ways to determine an era.
I went about my choice from the "head-end".
My pikes' era is based on the motive power I chose to model.
After deciding on a location, I next chose an industry.
Where I chose was the Rocky Mountains; on the southern side of the Grande Mesa.
What I chose was a freelance, coal branch loop served by other major lines.
Because of the available space; 4'x8'- -15-inch curves, 3% grades, #2 turnouts- -my motive power is primarily GPs.
Four axle diesels rule on my pike: GP40s, GP30s, GP38-2, F-A & B units, BL2, RS-3, with smaller switchers and critters.
That got me to the era between the 1970s to late 1980s.
For a "justification" for steam, I run an Olde Tyme excursion train with a USRA 0-6-0 w/Vanderbilt tender along with a Side Tank Porter 0-6-0T as a helper.
Occasionally the Royal Gorge excursion train makes an appearance with its 85-foot passenger cars. The coupler swing is ridiculous but they will negotiate the "mainline".
There are many ways to determine what era, industry, and location you choose to model.
Again, having the dimensions of the space you have would be of great assistance.
Consider connected industries. My layout has a brewery, a tanning factory, a slaughterhouse and a Railway Express office. What ties them together is the icing platform. The tannery needs hides, which come from the slaughterhouse, which needs livestock, but the primary product is meat, which needs refrigeration to be shipped. The brewery ships its beer in cooled reefers. My Railway Express reefers arrive as part of passenger trains, but mut be iced to keep them cool.
Ice bunker reefers are a great industry to model. They generate a lot of very local traffic, and also can service through trains as needed.
I'm sure there are other connected industries that can generate lots of local traffic between two or more different companies. I also have a carfloat terminal, which can generate all kinds of traffic.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I would first determine which type of freight cars I would prefer to see. This would help determine the era being replicated. For instance, ice reefers would mean pre-1972. Atlas' new ACF 5250 cu. ft. Center Flow plastics hoppers, post 1965. Once these determinations are made, the search for appropriate industries will be easier. Ice reefers-produce packing houses, produce wholesalers, which by the way, often clustered around a "team" yard of open spotting tracks. If your preference is large grain covered hoppers, how about a large terminal elevator? If you prefer more variety, how about a "munchie mill", making snack foods? It could possibly take covered hoppers carrying grain, flour, sugar, salt, while reefers could bring in nuts, butter and cheese. Oils would arrive in tank cars, along with cars of high fructose corn syrup. Packaging materials could come by boxcar and some finished items could ship out in RBLs or, bunkerless refrigerator cars. A small yard serving a large industry as such, could offer some realistic operation, if trackage at the industry served more than one purpose. You didn't specify your interests or space constraints therefore, a more definitive reply can't be given. The above is my method of selecting industries which in turn dictate my era and, overall layout theme. Good luck!
As has been posted, letting us know the size constraints you are facing always helps.
What scale?
"My mind is aglow with whirling transient nodes of thought, careening through a cosmic vapor of invention!" Hedley Lamarr- -Blazing Saddles; 1974.
I can think of a myriad of track plans/scenarios but without the constraints of dimensions and the scale you are working with it's difficult to begin.
A little more info will get that "...cosmic vapor of invention..." flowing.
JDawgBut now, for this layout, I have to design a small shelf layout with some more restrictive space constraints. So I am having to design a new theme. Something like large industrial complexes or a mid sized town with yard, induatries etc. I'm trying to find inspiration in the real world but I'm not having much luck. What advice do you have for designing a layout like this?
A small layout with big industries seems to be an oxymoron. If an industry is shipping by rail, the industry would likely be much bigger than the cars in which it ships (or receives).You don't mention the small layout's size, but I'd suggest that you might want to use background-type structures to at least bulk-up the look of big industries, and you also might be able to use them as rail-served shippers. As for including an actual large industry, I'd guess that your version of large might differ from mine. I have some largish industries, but I would consider none of them to be prototypically large.To give you an example, some years ago, I decided that I wanted to build a blast furnace. As I was working at a steel plant, one of the supervisors suggested that I visit the records department, which I did. After explaining my intentions, I was escorted into the blueprint storage area and the employee gave me a thick sheaf of blueprints that covered the company's latest and largest furnace, with an invitation to return if I needed more. I set out to build the furnace and casthouse first, which occupied a board roughly 4'x4', but began to realise that I'd also need to add a stockhouse (likely around 8' long, plus the ramp to the top of it for the cars carrying the materials, along with the pollution control facilities (scrubbers, gas washers, dust collectors, etc., etc.) plus the three large "stoves" which supplied the furnace. It was clear that such a model would not fit into our small apartment, so I shelved it for later, when we finally bought a house. While I was reluctant to admit it, the project was never going to be completed...a blast furnace on it's own, with no related facilities to receive the iron for conversion into steel wasn't going to present much more than a static display with no operational possibilities. Over time, I disassmbled what I had built, and scrapped almost all of it. My guesstimate of the finished model's size would have been around 34 square feet.
Here's one of the few photos of part of it...
...and the real one...
On my current layout, this industry is 36" long...
...a shrimp compared to any of the five Westinghouse factories in my hometown.
This one is just over 40" long, and not based on any prototype...
...and this one, just over 6' long, is totally fictional, but represents what I'd consider to be 1/3 of what the completely-modelled structure would be...
Unless we have a warehouse or arena for our layouts, we're forced to use mere representations of whatever large industries that we really want.
Wayne
nealknows12'x13' room for my trains. While not as big as my NJ layout, I decided that I would do a point to point railroad with a yard on one end
My previous HO layout was built in a spare bedroom not quite as large as Neal's.
It started as a loop around the walls, but it was converted to point-to-point and I liked it better that way.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I have a house in So. Fl. and management (the wife) gave me a 12'x13' room for my trains. While not as big as my NJ layout, I decided that I would do a point to point railroad with a yard on one end (if you can call this a point to point) of the lower level. I have a helix and along the way to the upper level I have 5 industries and even more on the upper level. I've designed it to be operated solo or with 1-2 other operators.
Most industries can handle 2-3 cars max and I added an interchange yard on the upper level. A train can leave the yard, and take trains to the upper level, drop them off in the interchange yard. Another engine (or crew member) works the industries on the upper level.
I've run it a couple times by myself and it works well. Once I am ready to have a couple guys over the house, we'll put it thru its paces..
Neal
we need space specs to really help
A downtown industrial/warehouse area in a major city usually will give you inspiration.
Use Historic Aerials to look at cities in previous eras. You can use Google Maps, but in the last 30-40 years so much urban trackage has been ripped up it will be harders to find examples.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
You get the most track in such a layout when you do "downtown heavy industry". But you might prefer something more open, like the central valley of California. Or something on the fringes of LA. Or....
You may have to decide on whether or not there will be a run-around track. Or more than one. Or "something" fancier than a lot of spurs off of a street track.
A puzzle with these is how to "feed" the layout. Ideally, I suppose, you'd have a staging/storage yard at each end. Maybe a 24' layout with an 8' yard at each end, leaving only an 8' long "official" layout. This isn't as bad as it sounds, because you CAN scenic the two yards.
Ed
H JJF. I had a similar challenge with part of my UK based layout at Leeds Sovereign Street. The area was 4ft by 1ft (and a bit).
What industries can I put there?
I decided on five businesses I had been involved in throughout my life. Where I have worked or helped. All are nowhere near Sovereign Street, but nobody knows and if they did, so what! The point being it is fun doing any switching. At times it becomes like an 'Inglenook Sidings' puzzle.
It is not real, but believable. Which is the aim. With over 500,000 views and a number of followers on the UK site I am on, I guess it is working
Hope it gives an idea or two.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
So, I'm still designing my Florida layout, but I am really stuggeling. My main layout in MN is room sized, and I get to model many small towns along my branch line. Each town has a few switches for various industries. So it is very rural with the exception of the large city with yard. But now, for this layout, I have to design a small shelf layout with some more restrictive space constraints. So I am having to design a new theme. Something like large industrial complexes or a mid sized town with yard, induatries etc. I'm trying to find inspiration in the real world but I'm not having much luck. What advice do you have for designing a layout like this? Any tips or tricks?