On the prototype, they aren't going to be running freight trains during the morning and evening rush hours. At all. Just commuter trains.
During off peak hours they will be running freights, but no local freights, between commuter trains.
Local freights will be running when the commuter trains aren't, unless the local freights can clear the main track to let the commuter train by.
Bottom line is that if you wanting to be prototypical, you will probably be running one of three modes:
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
If I were planning a small layout, I would probably make it a one town layout. Probably some sort of out and back with layover staging. Or maybe a loop with hidden staging on one side of the loop. Trains could come onto the stage from either end, do their business, and then leave. That would give me the flexibility to have both through trains and trains which terminate at the modeled town, then turned and sent back to where they came from. I could also do continuous running if I was in the mood to do that. Since you want to model a specific prototype, I'm not sure how that would fit into your plans.
Outsailing86Recently I came across an article by Jeff Madden regarding Come and Go layout designs.
If I remember correctly, there was an article in MR some time ago about a Come and Go track plan. I don't know if this was written by Jeff Madden. Maybe someone else here can come up with the issue information.
John-NYBW Most of your switching would come from your local. Your through freights might have cuts of cars to drop off or pick up.
Actually, all the switching would be done by the local.
The short haul manifest go to Schiller Park. The local L501, which currently is useing 2, GP38-2's, I think one is still in the GTW paint would bring the needed cars from Schiller, to where ever they are servicing.
Mike
My You Tube
It sounds like you are describing a point-to-point layout with staging yards at either end. If that is the case, what you are proposing is an expanded switching layout with the ability to move trains off stage. My question would be how long would it take you to run the entire schedule of trains through the layout. Unless I missed something, you have identified five trains. At 30 seconds per run time, that is only two and a half minutes. Your commuter would make a station stop. Most of your switching would come from your local. Your through freights might have cuts of cars to drop off or pick up. Sounds to me like 10-15 minutes of activity. Then you could turn the trains to run in the opposite direction. Is that going to be enough activity to keep you happy?
Outsailing86Freight traffic at this location is surprisingly directional, CN routes southbound trains on the Waukesha to connect to the IHB and BRC at Schiller Park.
CN A44681, SB, daily, Green bay WI., to BRC (Short haul manifest)
CN L501, daily, Schiller to Wheeling, and back. (Local)
CN U267, NB, as needed. (Crude empties, from Hawthorn NS yard to North Battleford, SK.)
CN S751, NB, as needed, (Sand empties, Hawthorn NS yard to Independence, WI.)
CN B782, B784, B786, SB, as needed, potash loads.
CN B781, as needed, potash empties.
CPR 142, NB, daily, (Containers from Schiller to Montreal)
CPR 143, SB daily, conterpart to CP 142.
CPR's intermodal facilities are on the east side of Schiller.
Mike.
Here is a working link to David's (NorthBrit) layout thread:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/284615.aspx
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Outsailing86 Thanks, yeah I've been looking and can't think of another town that isn't either too intimidating (West Chicago) or another town that you would go to to actively compare. This would let me model what happens at Wheeling instead of needing to model Wheeling.
Thanks, yeah I've been looking and can't think of another town that isn't either too intimidating (West Chicago) or another town that you would go to to actively compare. This would let me model what happens at Wheeling instead of needing to model Wheeling.
Do you have reverse loops on both ends of the straight section?
Rich
Alton Junction
I live in the North East of England and model Southern California/Southern Florida on a double deck layout. I have A UK outline layout designed for exhibitions.
From my experience, I have a couple of observations.
Have you thought about alternative locations, Miami Tri Rail operate with 2 vehicle trains, the Coaster trains in San Diego operate with four coach sets and the Road Runner service in New Mexicooperates with just two coaches at times. Modelling these will give you lots of space.
On my UK layout I model a commuter service terminal and a freight operation sharing the same track. A two track terminal with shortish commuter trains gives plenty of space for industry in the style of Lance Mindheim.
Trevor
https://roundtreessidings.wordpress.com/ https://kaleyyard.wordpress.com/
RMC did a series about building a project layout somewhat like that recently. Their layout was a straight line rather than a U shape, and set on the east coast, but was a commuter-based layout with a couple of industry spurs/sidings.
http://rrmodelcraftsman.com/consider-the-commuter-part-1/
Outsailing86Recently I came across an article by Jeff Madden regarding Come and Go layout designs. A train enters the layout, performs its work, and moves on. do you own a layout like this? Have you operated on one?
Kind of... my planned final lifetime layout features "come and go" staging, plus a lot of interesting operation on the layout itself. It is intended for solo (me) operation and its sole purpose is to provide me with happiness.
This map shows the STRATTON AND GILLETTE system. The red box shows the tiny section of the SGRR that will be represented on my layout.
The towns of Great Divide and Manchester will be represented by hidden staging tracks that connect the two locations. The mainlines North and South from Centerville are also represented by staging and are all loops.
This diagram shown is not the actual track plan, but it is close enough to get the idea of what I am trying to accomplish. I do not have the ability to create a good looking scale track plan. Think of this as a fancy schematic or operating concept.
My layout features two towns, but it could easily be one town where the waterfront (Port Anabell) represents the industrial district of Centerville.
The main section of my layout is the city of Centerville. This is a large town on the North/South coastal division of the STRATTON AND GILLETTE railroad. The layout will only represent a tiny part of the city of Centerville. Industries in Centerville are served by the DAWDLE AND DELAY railroad, so the SGRR has no switching functions in Centerville, but there will be an interchange track with the D&D.
There will also be a switching puzzle, maybe a timesaver, above the SGRR tracks to staging with a D&D locomotive performing the work there.
The concept of this, the sixth STRATTON AND GILLETTE layout is entirely built around single-operator fun. After decades as a Model Railroader, I have come to the conclusion that the social aspect of Model Railroading and Operating Sessions are not for me. The layout design is to maximize what I enjoy in the hobby.
This is the typical operating plan:
Passenger trains: There will be an outer loop with three passenger trains. One in staging, one at the station, and one just running in circles. I can switch from one passenger train to another at will. Passenger trains are not my thing, and as of right now, 0% of my passenger equipment is ready for operation.
I like the idea of passenger trains, I just don't know if any will ever get completed. I already own all the equipment needed.
Freight trains: As I desire, I can pull a freight train from staging into Centerville. Cars can be removed and added to this train. Locomotives and cabooses can be turned or swapped out, and then the train can be sent back to staging. If desired, I can also just leave a freight train running constantly on the inner loop.
Local runs and switching: This is the meat and potatoes of the layout fun. The sequence of a typical solo operating session on the layout would look something like this:
1) The Machester run: Assemble a train in Centerville for Manchester. Then move this train to the Manchester staging track. There will be another train in Manchester staging (this train was actually staged from Great Divide in the previous session), and this train represents the return run from Manchester. Move this train "back" to Centerville.
Note: I will have two identical locomotives and cabooses for the Manchester/Great Divide trains. This allows the trains going to and from these to cities to disappear with one set of freight cars, then reappear with a different train consist on the simulated return run. This is kind of similar to a "loads-in-empties-out" sequence.
2) The Port Anabell run: Now I can assemble a train in Centerville to go to Port Anabell, and run it over. On the way to Port Anabell there is one industry to be switched, and the interchange track with the DAWDLE AND DELAY.
3) Switch Port Anabell: There are a lot of industries in Port Anabell served by the STRATTON AND GILLETTE. Switching chores in Port Anabell will be fun. Also, cars will need to be unloaded and reloaded on and off the carfloat.
4) Great Divide run: Now I can turn the locomotive, assemble a short train, and send it on a local run to Great Divide. The same trackage that is Manchester out of Centerville are used for staging Great Divide out of Port Anabell. When the train returns from Great Divide it will be made up of the train cars previously sent to Manchester. This will require a temporary suspension of belief, but it will allow for better operation and a variety of train cars moving around. I have an idea to improve the illusion of different trains, but it will require a lot of work, so might never get done.
5) Return to Centerville: Turn the locomotive again, assemble the freight cars to return to Centerville, and send the train back.
6) Switching in Centerville: Approximately 6 feet of the layout on the left side by the workbench will be hidden trackage to staging. Above this area will be the switching puzzle of Centerville. I still have not decided what this will look like, but it will be fun, and also allows me to add a DAWDLE AND DELAY locomotive to the roster.
7) Swap out the carfloat load: There will be an eight drawer storage cabinet underneath the Port Anabell Carfloat. At the end of each session, the cars will be removed from the carfloat and placed in a drawer, and the cars from the next drawer down will be placed onto the carfloat. When the bottom drawer is reached, I will start over again from the top. It will take 8 operating sessions to go through all the freight cars in carfloat storage/staging.
All of this will allow for a lot of action in an operating session. Portions of the operation can be left off if I want to do less.
There should be plenty of things to keep me interested in my final layout for years.
I hope my concept description makes you feel better about your idea. It sounds like you will have a fun layout.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I've been searching to see what trains the CN currently have that take that route. Most trains take the "J", at Leighton, and go around, but some still take the WC route.
So far, I've found a short haul manifest, A44681 that goes to BRC, and a local, L50191 that goes from Schiller to Wheeling.
I'll see what more I can find from the CN Train Symbol list.
You may be on to something here with the single town concept or, maybe more appropriately, the single scene concept. It would be great if you had a 12' straight section of track instead of 10' because a complete rush hour Metra train will have 8 cars plus the engine, so that will take up 9' in HO scale.
I don't have a single scene layout but, as a lifetime Chicagoan and Chicago suburbanite, I find your proposed geographic location interesting.
The Wheeling Metra station isn't much too look at as it is a fairly simple structure with a warming station across the tracks. As seen in the first photo that follows, your backdrop could be the large condominium complex.
There are two industrial spurs just south of the station, as shown in the second photo, that feed tank cars into both sides of the Hidden Valley Mfg. complex which manufactures Clorox bleach. You could cheat a little and move those spurs to the north side of the complex so that the spurs turn into your left side curve.
There is also a single crossover just north of the station, as shown in the third photo, which could be placed on your layout if you could add that additional 2' of straight track. It could be reversed to reach the two spurs.
Will the 2 legs of the U be reverse loops to turn the trains?
Just some thoughts.
Nearly a 100 views and no comments?
To 'break the ice' my layout (over the pond in the UK.) Leeds Sovereign Street section can be operated as a stand alone thru Station. http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/284615.aspx
A goods train arrives with raw goods and delivers them to the factories. At the same time prepares to take the manufactured goods away.
Meanwhile a passenger train may arrive; then depart.
Having a simple, easy to operate layout needs to keep it entertaining, otherwise it becomes boring. Therefore choose factories etc that have a lot going on.
One of my factories makes military uniforms. Obviously fabric would arrive and uniforms depart the factory. It is a coal fired factory, so a delivery of coal twice a week. Stationery items; plenty of form filling needs printed paper. A delivery once, maybe twice a week. New machinery? Certain foods?
That is just one factory. I have seven that need different things. All bringing variety to a small layout.
I am sure you can think of other items your factories require. Remember why they are there. They have a reason and not just stuck on a board. Treat them as if you were the manager of them. "Where is the material? When will it arrive? Is the despatch ready? We are burning too much coal/oil!"
Oh! A passenger train arrives and holds things up a little.
The main board of Leeds Sovereign Street is 4ft long 1ft and a bit wide. It is great fun to operate because everything has a reason to be there.
It is a simple layout and great fun.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
My primary interest is modern, commuter rail modeling with freight traffic, what you would find in the suburbs of Chicago. with that in mind, various track plans have been an inspiration for ideas for the dream layout.
Recently I came across an article by Jeff Madden regarding Come and Go layout designs. A train enters the layout, performs its work, and moves on.
do you own a layout like this? Have you operated on one?
my sceniced area I'm envisioning would be a U, 6' legs with a 90 degree curve, and an approximately 10' section of straight/center track with a Metra platform. Total sceniced track would be approx 24' including the curve. For this example of analysis paralysis I'm specifically thinking about Wheeling, IL on the CN Waukesha Sub/ Metra NCS
Running 24' with a mainline freight (at 45mph) would be approx 30 seconds on the layout. Even with a 30 second Metra stop, the train is only on the layout for about one minute. To keep the scene somewhat organized, I would like to think there would be a double track main, at one set of universal crossovers, and 2-3 industries to switch with the local. Freight traffic at this location is surprisingly directional, CN routes southbound trains on the Waukesha to connect to the IHB and BRC at Schiller Park. Rarely would Metra meet at this location, so only one commuter train would be required. Other staging yard requirements would be 2 CN freights plus the local. so in conclusion...
is this a location that lacks enough activity for a model railroad? is the single town concept flawed?
or... "just switch to n scale"