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Micro Set and Micro Sol; Using them for decals

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Posted by ModelTrain on Saturday, March 20, 2021 4:20 AM

hon30critter

I agree. It looks good. Leave it as is. Thumbs Up

Dave

Thanks Dave. I will not touch it. The only thing I will improve is the roof.

Stef

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, March 18, 2021 10:44 AM

I agree. It looks good. Leave it as is. Thumbs Up

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by ModelTrain on Thursday, March 18, 2021 4:27 AM

SeeYou190
ModelTrain
What do you think?

I think it looks good, and you should not do anything else.

Yes Congratulations.

-Kevin

Thanks. I will do as you say ;)

Stef

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 7:57 PM

ModelTrain
What do you think?

I think it looks good, and you should not do anything else.

Yes Congratulations.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by ModelTrain on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:30 PM

Lastspikemike

I agree. Placing decals isn't fun for everyone but if you acquire a little skill it can be a very rewarding aspect of our hobby.

Those photos show excellent results. You can feel very pleased with yourself.

Thanks. Yes I am learning new skills and next time should be easier.

It took me about ten application of Micro-Sol to produce this result. I needed to use a Q-Tip to move the decal exactly where I wanted it to go.

Stef

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 5:49 PM

Leave it just like that, it looks great!

 

    

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Posted by ModelTrain on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 5:48 PM

I have done a little bit of weathering on the sign with sandpaper.

What do you think? Should I do something else like a wash or more sandpaper?

Sign

Stef

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Posted by ModelTrain on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 4:51 AM

hon30critter
ModelTrain
Here is the first attempt I did yesterday. What do you think? 

The decal has settled into the brick seams nicely. You have done a good job. Tell us what you did.

If I can make one observation, you have done a fantastic job of weathering the building, but the sign looks like it was painted on this morning. Perhaps a bit of weathering on the sign might be appropriate. I would try gently using very fine sandpaper and then some washes, but others might have better ideas.

Dave

Thank you. Exactly, now I think I should have weathered the building after putting the sign. I think next time it would be the best thing to do.

I am just afraid to remove parts of the decal and maybe the paint under it by using sandpaper.

 

SeeYou190
ModelTrain
Wow, thank you Kevin and all the others for your help.

I am so pleased to hear that some of my ramblings were helpful. I don't think that actually happens very often.

Embarrassed

I zoomed in on the picture you shared... GREAT JOB! You succeeded masterfully at getting the decal to snuggle into the texture of the wall.

-Kevin

Thanks Kevin for your comment and your help. Yes I am very happy with the result. Now, I have to weather it because, like Dave mentionned, it looks like the sign have been painted yesterday.

Stef

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Posted by FRRYKid on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 1:38 AM

If you don't feel like weathering the sign, you could always say that the owners decided that it needed to be repainted and it just got done. (or even put a few painters on a scaffold to have workers repainting it now.)

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 11:23 PM

ModelTrain
Wow, thank you Kevin and all the others for your help.

I am so pleased to hear that some of my ramblings were helpful. I don't think that actually happens very often.

Embarrassed

I zoomed in on the picture you shared... GREAT JOB! You succeeded masterfully at getting the decal to snuggle into the texture of the wall.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 11:20 PM

ModelTrain
Here is the first attempt I did yesterday. What do you think?

The decal has settled into the brick seams nicely. You have done a good job. Tell us what you did.

If I can make one observation, you have done a fantastic job of weathering the building, but the sign looks like it was painted on this morning. Perhaps a bit of weathering on the sign might be appropriate. I would try gently using very fine sandpaper and then some washes, but others might have better ideas.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by wp8thsub on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 11:05 PM

DSC03712

by wp8thsub, on Flickr

I find that I don't have much use for Micro Set at all.  I normally float the decal into position with Micro Sol.  On the rare occasion I feel like repositioning a decal that landed in the wrong place, I flood it with water and move it before applying more solvent.

 

DSC03689 (2)

by wp8thsub, on Flickr

If a model has lots of surface variation and/or the decal film is thicker than usual (e.g. Herald King), I may proceed to something stronger than Micro Sol, like Walthers Solvaset.  I only do that after ensuring Micro Sol won't finish the job the way I'd like.

Rob Spangler

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Posted by ModelTrain on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 4:46 AM

Wow, thank you Kevin and all the others for your help. I really appreciate.

Here is the first attempt I did yesterday. What do you think?

Micro sol

Stef

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 2:57 AM

FRRYKid
Everybody seems to have a different way that they do their decals and it seems to work for them. Find what works for you and go with it.

Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up Do some experimenting and find out what works for you. Start with the weakest solution, i.e. distilled water, and work up from there.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 2:38 AM

My 2 cents worth on decals:

  1. I agree completely to use distilled water for soaking decals. Too much chance of regular water fouling up finishes.
  2. I have never had major problems using Micro-set (blue) as the floating agent. I seem to have more problems if I use distilled water for that purpose.
  3. I almost always decal on a flat finish especially if it is equipment I have brush painted. (I don't own an airbrush.) I have decaled over half of my 200+ pieces of rolling stock in one way or another between my protolanced and the prototype equipment I have. Some of those are on equipment new from the box as they either need ACI labels (70's era modeler) or COTS labels. Of those, I have only had "silvering" happen twice on any of my models. I have also decaled on silver paint without problems which is hard to do for some people.
  4. I also agree that Micro-Sol (red) works well for removing lettering. Some paints it removes easily. Others it removes the paint if you're not careful. A few I've had it doesn't work at all. (Five Roundhouse coal hoppers come to mind. I just painted over the lettering.)

Everybody seems to have a different way that they do their decals and it seems to work for them. Find what works for you and go with it.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, March 15, 2021 10:45 PM

hon30critter
If you have hard water you might want to get some distilled water. I just use regular tap water with no ill effects.

We cannot use the tap water down here. The water from the Floridan Limestone Aquifer has way too many dissolved solids/mineral content.

Buying distilled water for decal use is a neccessity.

Also, for heavy equipment batteries. Distilled water only, never the tap water.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, March 15, 2021 9:32 PM

I will agree with doctorwayne about using water to float a decal into position. I used to use MicroSet to get decals in place but I found that sometimes the decals became very soft and were prone to tearing. That was paricularly the case with pinstripes. When I switched to just plain water the problem went away. If you have hard water you might want to get some distilled water. I just use regular tap water with no ill effects.

Another of Wayne's points that I agree with is to let the decal dry thoroughly between each step. The decal will be far less likely to move out of position if it is dry. If you apply a setting solution to a freshly positioned wet decal it may float out of place.

I will make one suggestion regarding MicroSet and MicroSol. Don't over tighten the caps. Both caps on my two different solutions became brittle over time and the tops of the caps actually broke open. I bought the solutions quite some time ago so I don't know if the cap material has been upgraded since then. If you are worried about getting a good seal then put a small piece of plastic wrap over the bottle before putting the cap on.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, March 15, 2021 7:27 PM

Thanks Kevin, I have ALCO PA/PB sets that are painted to match. You can see part of the PA in this photo:

 

Sheldon

    

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, March 15, 2021 7:15 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
A few of my results:

I like these passenger cars. Very handsome paint scheme.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, March 15, 2021 6:39 PM

I much prefer Walthers Salvoset to the MicroScale products, but I do keep them on hand for special situations.

A few of my results:

 

 

 

Sheldon

 

    

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, March 15, 2021 3:49 PM

Lastspikemike
Blue stuff helps you position the decal ("set" it into place)

You're sorta half-right and half-wrong, Mike.  Water is for positioning the decal, and using it will allow multiple attempts until you get the decal exactly where you want it to be.  If you apply Microset, you will be limited in re-positioning the decal, as it is a weak setting solution....as it evapourates, the decal will not be easily moveable - parts of it may move, but a torn or distorted decal is not usually recoverable.

I use Microset only when the decal is in its proper place, and allow the excess to evapourate before making additional applications.  I don't use MicroSol at all, as I prefer Solvaset for tough-to-set decals.

Wayne

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Posted by John-NYBW on Monday, March 15, 2021 1:22 PM

I used to have trouble keeping them straight. Because it can be months between decal settings I used to forget whether it was red or blue to go on first. The way I keep it straight in my head is MicroSol is a solvent and it can dissolve the decal if applied to generously. It can smear the lettering. Apply it sparingly after the decal has set. I like to use a cotton swab. Just dab it on. Better to use two or three stingy applications than using too much at once. If the decal film remains visible after several applications of MicroSol, I'll dab some around the edges of the decal and use a SHARP hobby knife to cut it as close to the lettering as I dare and then carefully remove the excess film with the point of the blade. 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, March 15, 2021 12:04 PM

ModelTrain
Now I would like to know how to use those products with my decals.

Sorry, but there is some bad information already presented in this thread that can cause poor results. 

You should practice on a test model first. My "test model" is a textured sheet of plastic I spray-painted gloss orange with a rattle spray can. It is great for testing/practicing decal work.

Also, maybe a search to a thread on decals that contains a response from Doctor Wayne will be a huge help.

This link goes to a thread that has a good response from Wayne, there are more, and all contain excellent advice:

Doctor Wayne Decal Info

The goal of these solutions is to make the decal look painted on. This is a skill that takes practice. Do not expect results like this from your first attempt.

Decals are a very relaxing part of the hobby for me, frustrating for others.

Good:

Have a glossy surface to apply the decal film onto. Use Microset or Water to slide the decal into position.

Bad:

I would avoid using a paper towel to draw excess fluid from the edges of the decal. Instead, allow it to evaporate naturally. Removing the fluid from around the edges can cause "silvering", and lint from the paper towel can get beneath the decal edge. Only use good quality brushes to apply decal solutions. If there is way too much fluid, a dry natural Sable bristle brush will pull away excess and leave nothing behind. I keep a #5 artist round Sable that has only been used for decal solutions and never paint.

Only pierce the decal with a knife or pin as a very last resort. I need to pierce less than 1% of the decals I apply. Pricking the decal creates a weak spot in the film that could tear as the setting solution dries. Instead, If I have a trapped air bubble, I carefully lift the decal from the edge to the air bubble with a 0.010" wire and let the decal solution in and the air out.

-    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -

MicroSet and MicroSol are both decal setting solutions. The purposes they have is to:

1) Bond the decal to the model surface.

2) Blend the decal film into the painted surface.

3) Conform the decal to the surface of the model.

To accomplish this, they soften the decal film, but hopefully do not soften the ink and damge the artwork.

MicroSet accomplishes 1 and 2 with good results. MicroSol is a bit stronger, and can be the solution to accomplish 3 on models with rivets, side ribs, or embossed surfaces.

Some models only need MicroSet and done. Most need something stronger to get the decal to settle into place around the details.

There are many decal setting solutions on the market other than MicroSet and MicroSol. I have tried them all. These are the six I get best results with arranged from mildest on the left to strongest on the right.

Don't get discouraged if things look a little "off" as you set the decals. After it is dry, I rinse the models in distilled water before I apply a final flat clear coat.

I usually apply decals to 3-5 cars at once. This gives me plenty of time to allow the setting solution to air dry as I move along.

Sometimes, no matter what you do, things just will not turn out right.

These Roman Wreath shield decals by Veni Vidi Vici refused to settle into place no matter what I did. Finally, I just gave up and applied the dullcoat. When they are being used in-game, I don't even notice.

Same with trains. The minor defects that might happen and not be correctable can be weathered over, or ignored. Once the train is moving you will not notice.

The weathering streaks on the right of this boxcar hide a place where a decal tore.

I hope this helped at least a little. Have fun, and don't become frustrated as things go wrong.

I see you can post pictures, so please let us see how this goes as you try it out.

If you have any more questions I will be here to help out.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by bnsf1997 on Monday, March 15, 2021 11:03 AM

peahrens

I got my first important experience with this on a set of passenger cars that I stripped and repainted.  

In addition to LastSpikeMike's comments:

- I let the decal initial set with Microset dry completely

- Then I applied Microsol and let that dry thoroughly, pricking any bubbles as described.  I used a QTip to apply and pricked any bubbles as described.  

- When dry, if not completely settled (e.g., atop a rivet) just applied Microsol again the number of times required.  Be sure to let it dry reasonably before re-applying.

It is a process.  With my 7 passenger cars, by the time I went through an application on the 7th one, the 1st one was ready for the next step.  

Another note: many suggest that the finish you are applying the decal to matters.  I believe that most suggest a gloss coat under the decals.  After decals, the final finish can be a semi-gloss or dull coat as desired.  Not sure if an initial gloss coat over the decals is suggested before the final coat.  Those with more experience can clarify.

 

 

Yes in scale modeling (plastic airplanes and such) they always say put down a gloss coat (either spray or by brush) on the surface prior to setting a decal. This will help prevent the "silvering" phenomenon where the decal can sometimes become opaque. I can't tell you the reasons why they sometimes become opaque, but I think sometimes it has to do with if the decal set is an older production. After it is set, then you can add a dull/flat coat on top to seal the decal if desired or if it is on an area of a model that will be touched often. You can also use microsol(red) to remove some factory-applied decals on rolling stock, which can come in handy.

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Posted by peahrens on Monday, March 15, 2021 10:45 AM

I got my first important experience with this on a set of passenger cars that I stripped and repainted.  

In addition to LastSpikeMike's comments:

- I let the decal initial set with Microset dry completely

- Then I applied Microsol and let that dry thoroughly, pricking any bubbles as described.  I used a QTip to apply and pricked any bubbles as described.  

- When dry, if not completely settled (e.g., atop a rivet) just applied Microsol again the number of times required.  Be sure to let it dry reasonably before re-applying.

It is a process.  With my 7 passenger cars, by the time I went through an application on the 7th one, the 1st one was ready for the next step.  

Another note: many suggest that the finish you are applying the decal to matters.  I believe that most suggest a gloss coat under the decals.  After decals, the final finish can be a semi-gloss or dull coat as desired.  Not sure if an initial gloss coat over the decals is suggested before the final coat.  Those with more experience can clarify.

EDIT: Some related older threads on this and Walthers Solvaset can be found here:

(1) site: cs.trains.com solvaset - Bing

 

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Micro Set and Micro Sol; Using them for decals
Posted by ModelTrain on Saturday, March 13, 2021 11:22 AM

Hi everyone!

I have just received two bottles (one of Micro Set and one for Micro Sol)  for using with my decals.

Now I would like to know how to use those products with my decals.

Decals

Stef

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